Thoughts on Covid 19

[Ferrariman]

3 hours ago, jpaul1 said:

interesting debate tonight on the news. they were saying that the omicron has reached a level of contagiosity that may make it maybe the most contagious human virus in history. making any confinment measure or similar pointless. as the virus will get through the wall cracks. the maybe good news is that it seems, i insist on seems, the virus is less dangerous than the delta. there will still be an hospital beds problem, but not of ICU

I don't know about getting through wall cracks but the experts have consistently said that if you're unvaccinated it WILL find you!  The jury is still out on whether it's more or less contagious but either way your best defense is still following the guidelines.  Masks, distance, no gatherings  with people you don't know and of course, vaccines.   

To me the biggest problem is still selfish, stupid people.   Sorry but we're way past the point of not having enough information!

[jpaul1]

omicron is much more contagious than delta. it's gonna hit us all. it's inevitable. the difference with delta, and this is what i was pointing out it's that it may send much more people to the hospital at the same time. added to the delta patients of course

here we are as high as 100k new cases per day. if the pathology needs the people infected to be at the hospital, this is gonna be a real problem. if they can be cured at home, then we may go through this (until next )

another important thing. apparently (according to the news) the sooner the booster, the lesser the chances to contract a dangerous form of the virus. here authorities are now encouraging the booster at +3 months. tonight the government announced a new measures series. we're not confined, but the vice is now stretching even harder around the unvaccinated

regarding the stupidity of some, until recently i used to think like you. but i met a few encounters in my life that changed my point of view. i noticed that lot of sceptics aren't lobbyists, conspiracy pushers, or even retarded. they just missed something. i think the main reasons why some doubt is the nature of the fight. it's not a direct fight, and i think this is what is confusing some people. we're not trying to eradicate the virus, we're trying to avoid an overflow of hospital beds. we're not trying to get rid of a virus, but trying to control it by preventing uncontrolled mutations. for some reason you, and i got it. but some didn't. this doesn't make them stupid neither

this being said i espect my government to behave in a firm manner toward the unvaccinated. because it puts us at great danger

[Christine]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb mjcmmv:

With teachers burning out (and that includes Nursing Instructors) we won't have educated students to fill nursing vacancies for years to come. 

 

That is, if there are enough people who want to enter the nursing profession. Here, too, some schools have experienced a drop in the number of students, or the number of students is decimated within the first three months because the trainees suddenly realize how strenuous the profession is.
However, I have to agree with jpaul. He's not necessarily talking about those who have yet to complete the training, but those who are already doing it and hang it up because they're at the end of their rope.

[Tom]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb jpaul1:

regarding the stupidity of some, until recently i used to think like you. but i met a few encounters in my life that changed my point of view. i noticed that lot of sceptics aren't lobbyists, conspiracy pushers, or even retarded. they just missed something. i think the main reasons why some doubt is the nature of the fight. it's not a direct fight, and i think this is what is confusing some people. we're not trying to eradicate the virus, we're trying to avoid an overflow of hospital beds. we're not trying to get rid of a virus, but trying to control it by preventing uncontrolled mutations. for some reason you, and i got it. but some didn't. this doesn't make them stupid neither

this being said i espect my government to behave in a firm manner toward the unvaccinated. because it puts us at great danger

Well, the "sceptics" should not be called sceptics anymore (that was fully ok in the beginning of the pandemic though). After nearly 2 years of Covid, everybody can inform himself/herself properly in serious sources if (s)he wants. You can choose to watch a documentary from 10 different ICUs on the internet within 1 hour to get an overview of real danger if you want, if you don´t that it´s for a reason-because you don´t want to know. If people believe some Facebook users more than experts or the WHO, demand proof for official numbers issued by all governments or disbelieve the consensus of all experts then this has nothing to do with scepticism, this is on full purpose to ignore facts for whatever reason or simply trying to create a fantasyworld. Our society is build on some consensus we all have reached for human rights and plain physics (There are no skeptics that doubt that our satellite photos of the earth are correct by saying the planet is flat. Also most people believe who their father is just because they have been told and without "scientific proof"). I believe that many use Covid -independently from facts or real beliefs- as a tool to articulate anger against the state or politicians and that facts do not matter anymore to them. 

A big problem also that Covid brought up is a huge gap of many people with simple logics, before we even come to maths and statistics.

One example: many people say Omicron is milder than Delta anyway so we can afford higher numbers easily.

Think again: If Omikron is really 4-10 times more infectious than Delta, than roughly only 1/4-1/10 of the hospitality rate (Omicron vs Delta)-an this is very unlikely to be that low- would be enough to again jeopardize all hospital systems world wide, as it was a few weeks ago (in Austria helicopters have to fly around the whole country to find ICU beds for patients after car crashes). Everything more than 1/4 would exponentially(!) flood hospitals AND even worse all delivery chains. Supermarkets start to run out of merch as many people working in the chain from supplier to airline/ship vessel to supermarket are sick and quarantained.

So, sorry to say, I have lost my belief in a society of well educated and reasonable individuals, as I have lost many friends and even family members mentally to Covid (makes no sense to talk to them anymore as they act either aggressively or irresponsible for all people around them).

[Ferrariman]

31 minutes ago, Tom said:

So, sorry to say, I have lost my belief in a society of well educated and reasonable individuals, as I have lost many friends and even family members mentally to Covid (makes no sense to talk to them anymore as they act either aggressively or irresponsible for all people around them).

Tom, I couldn't have said it better myself!     These "aggressive and irresponsible" people  (who I call stupid and selfish) are the ones keeping the cycle of infections going.  I'm sorry to say I know a few of them.    

[Tom]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Ferrariman:

Tom, I couldn't have said it better myself!     These "aggressive and irresponsible" people  (who I call stupid and selfish) are the ones keeping the cycle of infections going.  I'm sorry to say I know a few of them.    

Speaking of stupidity: years ago people gladly had multiple sometimes severe shots for travel to the tropics or against sicknesses at home for themselves and their kids. All of these vaccines were tested with a few thousands of people in clinical studies only before approving them, but nobody ever read the fine print or asked for a study document. No problem. 

Now, with 7+ billion vaccines already given, many people decline vaccines for below reasons (choose any of the stupid arguments below). I simply do not get it!

1) it changes your DNA (a vaccine does not work that way, proven wrong countless times)

2) it makes you infertile (a vaccine does not work that way, proven wrong countless times)

3) it does not work (proven wrong by 7+billion shots)

4) it kills you (proven wrong by 7+ billion shots, the rare counterindications are harmless and as less often/severe than with usual anti baby pills)

5) it is not properly tested and rushed (yes, of course 7+ billion successful vaccinations are just a coincidence and have much less test patients than other vaccines in the past! )

....

 

Everytime I think about people believing above are allowed to vote, drive our buses and sometimes even work as doctors or cops make me cringe. Einstein was right. Unlimited is only outer space and stupidity.

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Tom

[Ferrariman]

6) My neighbor tells me that since receiving the vaccine I now have radiation in my body.  (So far I don’t glow in the dark)

[pahonu]

1 hour ago, Ferrariman said:

6) My neighbor tells me that since receiving the vaccine I now have radiation in my body.  (So far I don’t glow in the dark)

  I hope your neighbor has never had an X-ray, used a microwave, listened to the radio, or indeed seen anything in the visible spectrum, because those are all types of electromagnetic radiation.  X-rays are ionizing radiation like the particle radiation your neighbor is likely thinking about… if they’re doing much thinking.  There’s not understanding happening.

This really returns to the issue of understanding the limits of our own personal knowledge and intelligence, and knowing when to defer to expertise with complex phenomenon or concepts.  No one wants to think they’re unintelligent, but there is so much as individuals we don’t understand.  Believing oneself has some special knowledge that experts in the area don’t, is typically just folly or hubris with no consequences.  Sadly, in these circumstances it is deadly.
 

 

[Augusta]

4 hours ago, Tom said:

....Everytime I think about people believing above are allowed to vote, drive our buses and sometimes even work as doctors or cops make me cringe. Einstein was right. Unlimited is only outer space and stupidity.

 

LOL!  Tom, you're forgetting the young fellow they caught trying to invade the Queen's castle residence over in England yesterday, armed with a crossbow.  ....A Crossbow.  

No, really a crossbow.  

[Augusta]

Pahonu...

I heard only a couple of days ago in an official press briefing from the international medical professions, that they "(paraphrasing words) DON'T have any proper length-of-time study on Omicron patients to conclude WHY the S. African surge has seemed to peak and settle down so soon, but they do suspect it has to do with the patterns of contracting the virus and the patterns of isolating the virus that S. African health care centers are forced to use in direct relation to THEIR people's social behavior."  (in other words, it may be caused by a specific fluke in the way they do things in their culture, that just happened to cause a stroke of good luck for them in their fight around Capetown).  There was also "(paraphrasing words again) an observation made of a Omicron cluster event that took place in Sweden, in which it appeared many in that cluster came down with very mild symptoms, but that there has literally been not enough time passed to generate a full study- chart it and form any finding." ( so literally, just an observation, not even a study or an official finding).  The media took that snippet of an observation, and they RAN with it, FULL COVER FEATURE.  "Good News!  Omicron is milder than Delta, and you recover fast!"  I'm seeing it right now, thrown in my face by my Microsoft Edge homepage, in a USA Today headline loop.  
It's not only the emotionally uptight persons out there who really aren't objecting to masks or vaccines and are just using it as something to say a temper-tantrum "no" to for their own therapeutic need.  

And It's not only the persons who are too overloaded with data they have to try to keep up with in their own personal lives to be able to keep up with the important reports being given to them.  

It's the persons who are GIVING the reports to them to half-digest, knowing that rolling out even half-digestible quarter-accurate "news" is sensational enough and just as lucrative as waiting around a little longer to gather more accurate information for readers the way actual journalists from years ago were taught to do.  
That's a THREE front war!
pahonu, that's two enemies too many to fight.  You'll only lose, no matter your humanitarian efforts.  Covid represents the war Mankind has lost before he even got out of his pajamas. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Augusta
spelling error

[pahonu]

1 hour ago, Augusta said:

Pahonu...

I heard only a couple of days ago in an official press briefing from the international medical professions, that they "(paraphrasing words) DON'T have any proper length-of-time study on Omicron patients to conclude WHY the S. African surge has seemed to peak and settle down so soon, but they do suspect it has to do with the patterns of contracting the virus and the patterns of isolating the virus that S. African health care centers are forced to use in direct relation to THEIR people's social behavior."  (in other words, it may be caused by a specific fluke in the way they do things in their culture, that just happened to cause a stroke of good luck for them in their fight around Capetown).  There was also "(paraphrasing words again) an observation made of a Omicron cluster event that took place in Sweden, in which it appeared many in that cluster came down with very mild symptoms, but that there has literally been not enough time passed to generate a full study- chart it and form any finding." ( so literally, just an observation, not even a study or an official finding).  The media took that snippet of an observation, and they RAN with it, FULL COVER FEATURE.  "Good News!  Omicron is milder than Delta, and you recover fast!"  I'm seeing it right now, thrown in my face by my Microsoft Edge homepage, in a USA Today headline loop.  
It's not only the emotionally uptight persons out there who really aren't objecting to masks or vaccines and are just using it as something to say a temper-tantrum "no" to for their own therapeutic need.  

And It's not only the persons who are too overloaded with data they have to try to keep up with in their own personal lives to be able to keep up with the important reports being given to them.  

It's the persons who are GIVING the reports to them to half-digest, knowing that rolling out even half-digestible quarter-accurate "news" is sensational enough and just as lucrative as waiting around a little longer to gather more accurate information for readers the way actual journalists from years ago were taught to do.  
That's a THREE front war!
pahonu, that's two enemies too many to fight.  You'll only lose, no matter your humanitarian efforts.  Covid represents the war Mankind has lost before he even got out of his pajamas. 

My wife and are high school teachers and have both prioritized teaching our students about reliable sourcing and parsing data.  It’s not part of our required curriculum, but should be we believe.  This includes the basic concept that certain types of media will inevitably oversimplify a scientific study (or social science study in my case) so it’s important to go far beyond the headline and opening paragraphs.  Many long form articles in newspapers and magazines do provide more comprehensive data.  Sadly, many never read the whole story or never even seek out the longer in-depth articles, settling instead for headlines and sound bites.  These individuals cannot understand then the complexity and nuance that these studies seek to achieve.  

Also, many lump all media into a single category and call it unreliable, when for example, there is a massive difference between Buzzfeed and a well-sourced and quoted Wall Street Journal article, let alone a scholarly journal.  Others still don’t understand the basic difference between news reporting, analysis, and op-ed.  I’ve had so many people over the years, including colleagues sadly, provide evidence for an argument by referring to an op-ed.  That’s not evidence.  It’s simply agreeing with another opinion, and they think that’s a good argument.  

I only have about a decade left in my teaching career and I am determined to prioritize these things until I retire.  Where we are headed, I cannot say, but I’m not going to stop trying.

[Christine]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Ferrariman:

6) My neighbor tells me that since receiving the vaccine I now have radiation in my body.  (So far I don’t glow in the dark)

7) Doctors and nurses, by the way, get a boosted vaccine that affects their brains. That's the only reason why they talk so much "nonsense" and defend this vaccination with which the government just wants to bring us all under control. (Testimony of an 81 year old man)

[Ferrariman]

19 hours ago, pahonu said:

  I hope your neighbor has never had an X-ray, used a microwave, listened to the radio, or indeed seen anything in the visible spectrum, because those are all types of electromagnetic radiation.  X-rays are ionizing radiation like the particle radiation your neighbor is likely thinking about… if they’re doing much thinking.  There’s not understanding happening.

This really returns to the issue of understanding the limits of our own personal knowledge and intelligence, and knowing when to defer to expertise with complex phenomenon or concepts.  No one wants to think they’re unintelligent, but there is so much as individuals we don’t understand.  Believing oneself has some special knowledge that experts in the area don’t, is typically just folly or hubris with no consequences.  Sadly, in these circumstances it is deadly.
 

 

Oh I can explain their thinking with one word.   facebook!   Nuff said!

[miamijimf]

I take the virus seriously (I'm vaccinated, boosted etc), as it should be but I get the feeling that some people/countries/organizations etc may be too fearful and this is adversely affecting their lives.  For example - a typical overreaction is the University of Miami cancelling their bowl game because 20 players tested positive for covid.  These are healthy, athletic, young men who would play against similar young men.  Most have no symptoms, been vaccinated, and the latest strain of the virus is less dangerous.  Bowl games are a reward that a lot of students deserve after 4 yrs of hard work, some without scholarships.  For the best players on the team bowl games are probably their last chance to impress the scouts and get hired or drafted into professional football.  Not to mention the loss of revenue by cities hosting bowl games, and the loss of entertainment to millions of fans.  Also the US has developed medications that are proven to help recovery in extreme cases of infections.  How long are we going to let this fear control our lives?  Especially considering that different versions of this virus may continue indefinitely. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by miamijimf

[Vicefan7777]

4 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

Oh I can explain their thinking with one word.   facebook!   Nuff said!

I saw it on Facebook so it MUST be true!!!  Yes I know people who think that way. 

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

40 minutes ago, Vicefan7777 said:

I saw it on Facebook so it MUST be true!!!  Yes I know people who think that way. 

This is true; I really try to figure out things for myself, and I figured out early that COVID was a very real deal. Not to flip out about it (Due to many life "adventures", I'm built for crisis situations, I'll do whatever it takes in any situation; I'm not reckless, I've just experienced enough that I'm no longer afraid. Also, it's worth it, to help those in need) ignore it like an overdue bill dressed in red, or think it's all a political hoax (?). I had to wait 14 months to work the job because of COVID, so I take every precaution and ALWAYS wear a mask indoors (I already wash my hands quite often, and since I clean industrial-sized kitch equipment, my hands are always washed anyway. Also, since I work at a spa & golf resort, I can say that everyone makes sure their golf balls are washed; hey, washed balls are 10 for 10 $ at the pub!).

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

2 hours ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

This is true; I really try to figure out things for myself, and I figured out early that COVID was a very real deal. Not to flip out about it (Due to many life "adventures", I'm built for crisis situations, I'll do whatever it takes in any situation; I'm not reckless, I've just experienced enough that I'm no longer afraid. Also, it's worth it, to help those in need) ignore it like an overdue bill dressed in red, or think it's all a political hoax (?). I had to wait 14 months to work the job because of COVID, so I take every precaution and ALWAYS wear a mask indoors (I already wash my hands quite often, and since I clean industrial-sized kitch equipment, my hands are always washed anyway. Also, since I work at a spa & golf resort, I can say that everyone makes sure their golf balls are washed; hey, washed balls are 10 for 10 $ at the pub!).

Also, two of my current co-workers are out due to COVID (Kimika the lobby lady, and I'm not sure about the other, but it might be her brother Leo).

[Robbie C.]

3 hours ago, miamijimf said:

I take the virus seriously (I'm vaccinated, boosted etc), as it should be but I get the feeling that some people/countries/organizations etc may be too fearful and this is adversely affecting their lives.  For example - a typical overreaction is the University of Miami cancelling their bowl game because 20 players tested positive for covid.  These are healthy, athletic, young men who would play against similar young men.  Most have no symptoms, been vaccinated, and the latest strain of the virus is less dangerous.  Bowl games are a reward that a lot of students deserve after 4 yrs of hard work, some without scholarships.  For the best players on the team bowl games are probably their last chance to impress the scouts and get hired or drafted into professional football.  Not to mention the loss of revenue by cities hosting bowl games, and the loss of entertainment to millions of fans.  Also the US has developed medications that are proven to help recovery in extreme cases of infections.  How long are we going to let this fear control our lives?  Especially considering that different versions of this virus may continue indefinitely. 

The easy explanation is modern medicine has made pandemics in the developed world so rare there is no memory of how they used to tear through cities and entire regions (go look at cholera in New York City in the 1800s). Add in a media that is addicted to turning everything into a disaster and parts of the political class that seem unhealthily fascinated with the amount of power they can wield and you have a very toxic mix. And that just scratches the surface.

[pahonu]

39 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

Add in a media that is addicted to turning everything into a disaster and parts of the political class that seem unhealthily fascinated with the amount of power they can wield and you have a very toxic mix. And that just scratches the surface.

With all respect, easy explanations give me pause.

Describing the media as a monolithic entity is part of the problem.  Many news sources have reliably and accurately reported data concerning the pandemic. Other media sources have been hyperbolic and perhaps overly reactionary, but still others downplayed or even questioned the existence of the pandemic to the point of endangerment.  There is simply not “a media”.

I also question the existence of a “political class” as oversimplification, no matter which part of that group one supports.  Our political leaders range from first time representatives having naturalized as immigrants to our country, to decades-long public servants with a long history in our nation and of service to our country, to groups long disenfranchised but with current political currency. 

I understand that it is human nature to try and break things down into components to aid in understanding, but doing so brings the risk of dismissing elements outright and the danger of oversimplification.  There is far more complexity and nuance involved here.

Edited December 29, 2021 by pahonu

[Robbie C.]

2 hours ago, pahonu said:

With all respect, easy explanations give me pause.

Describing the media as a monolithic entity is part of the problem.  Many news sources have reliably and accurately reported data concerning the pandemic. Other media sources have been hyperbolic and perhaps overly reactionary, but still others downplayed or even questioned the existence of the pandemic to the point of endangerment.  There is simply not “a media”.

I also question the existence of a “political class” as oversimplification, no matter which part of that group one supports.  Our political leaders range from first time representatives having naturalized as immigrants to our country, to decades-long public servants with a long history in our nation and of service to our country, to groups long disenfranchised but with current political currency. 

I understand that it is human nature to try and break things down into components to aid in understanding, but doing so brings the risk of dismissing elements outright and the danger of oversimplification.  There is far more complexity and nuance involved here.

And with equal respect you seem to have missed the initial part of that post. We simply lack the social knowledge of pandemics in the modern age, at least in the more developed world. There is always complexity and nuance, sometimes obvious and at other times obscured by pedantic jargon or emotional hyperbole from which neither side (or any side) is immune.

[pahonu]

38 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

And with equal respect you seem to have missed the initial part of that post. We simply lack the social knowledge of pandemics in the modern age, at least in the more developed world. There is always complexity and nuance, sometimes obvious and at other times obscured by pedantic jargon or emotional hyperbole from which neither side (or any side) is immune.

I didn’t miss the initial part.  I agree with it and should have stated that.  As a history teacher, I agree with that statement, perhaps more than you know.  I didn’t agree with the second part and so commented on it.

Edited December 30, 2021 by pahonu

[miamijimf]

Interestingly my oldest daughter felt like a cold was coming on so she got tested for the virus and got a positive result.  We were at her house for Christmas.  She is fine and no other family member, including me, have any symptoms.  Of course we are all vaccinated etc.  It is probably Omicron, the latest and most prevalent version that is milder than other versions.

I think that describing the US media as monolithic is fair.  If you are talking about the so called "mainstream media" or the majority of news outlets - NBC, MSNBC, ABC, CNN, CBS, NY Times, Wall St. Journal etc.  They all seem to have the same line about the virus and other subjects.  If you watch them from time to time, it will be clear.  No respected or popular outlet that I know about downplayed or even questioned the existence of the pandemic.  Of course the media is addicted to turning everything into a disaster, sensationalism sells and boosts ratings.  And they are all money making corporations.  Those politicians who want centralized control don't shy away from emphasizing the dangers posed by the virus because IMO they think people will turn to the government as their savior.

[pahonu]

1 hour ago, miamijimf said:

Interestingly my oldest daughter felt like a cold was coming on so she got tested for the virus and got a positive result.  We were at her house for Christmas.  She is fine and no other family member, including me, have any symptoms.  Of course we are all vaccinated etc.  It is probably Omicron, the latest and most prevalent version that is milder than other versions.

I think that describing the US media as monolithic is fair.  If you are talking about the so called "mainstream media" or the majority of news outlets - NBC, MSNBC, ABC, CNN, CBS, NY Times, Wall St. Journal etc.  They all seem to have the same line about the virus and other subjects.  If you watch them from time to time, it will be clear.  No respected or popular outlet that I know about downplayed or even questioned the existence of the pandemic.  Of course the media is addicted to turning everything into a disaster, sensationalism sells and boosts ratings.  And they are all money making corporations.  Those politicians who want centralized control don't shy away from emphasizing the dangers posed by the virus because IMO they think people will turn to the government as their savior.

Sorry Jim, but conflating the Wall Street Journal and The NY Times editorial boards as the same “mainstream media” is misinformed.  Today, they still take dramatically different positions on public policy issues based on their significantly different political perspectives.  To claim they are the same is overly simplistic.

Prior to last fall’s election, I recall media outlets giving significant airtime to more than one politician who claimed that after the election, coverage of the pandemic, and some saying the very pandemic itself, would simply disappear, because it wasn’t a real threat to society.  A handful are still tragically making those claims and still receiving coverage.  Over a year later, I’m still waiting for the media to stop coverage of the virus because it was all just a political stunt.  It’s clearly not, and those who used political arguments to present it as such were sadly and tragically mistaken.

[jpaul1]

8 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

And with equal respect you seem to have missed the initial part of that post. We simply lack the social knowledge of pandemics in the modern age, at least in the more developed world. There is always complexity and nuance, sometimes obvious and at other times obscured by pedantic jargon or emotional hyperbole from which neither side (or any side) is immune.

personnally i think the medias are doing their job well. time is not to details searching, and chirurgical rhetorics. too much details searching, and explanations will create a doubt illusion, and bring even more confusion into the sceptics mind. The problem is known. covid is hospitals beds hog. and puts in great danger emergency patients (not because of its dangerosity, but because of a lack of beds). So information, and well reasearched info is certainly a good thing, but beware not to create a situation that would bring confusion. too much debate may let think we have the time. we don't have time. there's certainly complexity, and nuance. But like we say here, the devil is into the details. too many details can bring even more problems

 

6 hours ago, miamijimf said:

 that is milder than other versions.

we don't know nothing about this. most important we don't know if it'll require people to be cured in hospitals. and occupy beds that should be used for emergency cases

Edited December 30, 2021 by jpaul1

[Tom]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jpaul1:

 covid is hospitals beds hog. and puts in great danger emergency patients (not because of its dangerosity, but because of a lack of beds).

I fear that a good portion of Corona denials or skepticism is based on false perceptions and many of these have been caused by sloppy arguments of experts. Here is a good example. The bottleneck in hospitals especially ICUs is NOT the lack of beds, but the lack of specially trained ICU crews (doctors and nurses with 3y+ training in equipment and medicines and it takes 4 people for 1 hour to turn over 1 ICU patient on machines with cables coming out on all sides and this has to be done at least twice a day per patien, just to illustrate importance of this detail) plus special gadgets that are limited, i.e. ICU "slots" (bed+team+equipment). The metal beds themselves are easy to provide. But with every iteration of this "bed" argument many people really believe that just adding a bed in an ICU will fix it.