Thoughts on Covid 19

[Christine]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Vicefan7777:

I saw it on Facebook so it MUST be true!!!  Yes I know people who think that way. 

But that doens´t fit to elderly or old people like the man I´ve been talking about with point 7. He was convinced that his words werer true and as all doctors and nurses he´s been talking to had told him to get the vaccine because of his age and deseases, he was convinced that we had been influenced by the vaccination.

[pahonu]

10 hours ago, Tom said:

I fear that a good portion of Corona denials or skepticism is based on false perceptions and many of these have been caused by sloppy arguments of experts. Here is a good example. The bottleneck in hospitals especially ICUs is NOT the lack of beds, but the lack of specially trained ICU crews (doctors and nurses with 3y+ training in equipment and medicines and it takes 4 people for 1 hour to turn over 1 ICU patient on machines with cables coming out on all sides and this has to be done at least twice a day per patien, just to illustrate importance of this detail) plus special gadgets that are limited, i.e. ICU "slots" (bed+team+equipment). The metal beds themselves are easy to provide. But with every iteration of this "bed" argument many people really believe that just adding a bed in an ICU will fix it.

 

That’s a very good example.  This was early in the pandemic, but a colleague of mine misunderstood the problem exactly as you explained.  “How hard can it be to get more beds?” he argued.  Public health officials are clearly using the term “bed” to mean exactly what you describe.  It would seem that the use probably originated within the healthcare field itself, but many didn’t understand the professional jargon.

I’ve frequented wondered when health officials used terms like virulence or transmissibility in public statements, how many are comprehending it fully.  I know my students ask me questions all the time about vocabulary meaning.  Even if they don’t ask, we check for understanding routinely, but that doesn’t happen in a sound bite or someone’s newsfeed.  

[miamijimf]

The way I see it most individual Americans have moved on from Covid.  By that I mean they are tired of hearing about it, not worried about it as long as they are vaccinated, fed up with mandates, consider the media and the government's preoccupation with it a bore and a detriment to those in power.  They are moving on with their lives, or soon will.  But the Federal and many state and local governments, and the mass media have not moved on and continue to insist on mandates for masks, inoculations, distancing etc.  The extreme shortage of tests is considered a real failure on the part of the government.  The current strain is widespread but causing way fewer deaths, hospitalizations, and serious illness.  It is very rarely infecting children and strikes mainly the non-vaccinated and we have therapeutics that will aid recovery (not distributed widely by the govt.).  Sure we will see new strains of the Chinese virus.  Let's hope they are not more dangerous, that is the only real danger IMO.

Edited January 4, 2022 by miamijimf

[Augusta]

You're right about Americans having "moved on" about it.  And that's not a nice thing, but it's something they do most of the time.  Some people argue, it's a "wealthy person's thing" to do.  To get bored quickly, and move on.  
I don't live in NYC, but I work there every day.  NYC never solved the homeless problem in their town.  I see the homeless lying on the warm sidewalk grates, and they smell, and they snap at me if I try to offer them money, and it hurts.  Most New Yorkers see them, and step over them---they've moved on from the daily sight of them, so the issue never gets solved.
Maybe the critics are right, that wealthy people can move on right after they get bored with a subject.  Covid does seem to find the weaknesses in a person's frail body, and FEAST on that person through those weaknesses.  Biological Life has made Covid, and Biological Life is very ruthless and brute-force about surviving.  
But much of last year has made me a brute too, and ruthless.  So I don't CARE about whether Omicron is mild.  Nor do I care that we only have readings of disease plateaus reached in someone's poor country when this world is owned by the US and other RICH, quickly-bored countries.  And sadly, nor do I care any longer about the hope of people just like me.  Hope, can be a mistake in the life of a human being.  

If "Sarah" lets a stranger whom she knows just killed a random neighbor down the street, walk right into Sarah's apartment and just live with her like a wordless squatter for a while, but having only a mild affect on Sarah's life for a few days, just long enough for him to completely change his identity so the police can't track him and he goes out and finds someone else to kill later on,...Sarah HELPED him.  She helped shelter him, gave him resources to come up with a new disguise, and let him go out and kill another neighbor because this stranger prefers to feast on the weak.  
The killer in the disguise isn't stopped,..because of SARAH.

In 2022 "Catherine" is a vaccinated person who has the wealthy person's mindset, is bored and has moved from precautions, and gets only a light set of symptoms from her infection.  The moment she let the virus hang out in her for a while, trying to find a new variation to disguise itself with and get better at killing,...the same truth about Sarah applies to Catherine.  The same Truth.
Covid is physically as operable and containable as syphilis.  Someone has got to give it shelter inside them, and screw the virus into you just like Catherine is doing.  
By 2025 if this virus in whatever new variant disguise isn't stopped,... it's because of CATHERINE. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Augusta

[Tom]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Augusta:

  Biological Life has made Covid,

I agree with most of your points, but one remark: COVID is NOT of biological nature., at least not the most dangerous part that causes high risk of spreading. All evidence shows that patient X was an employee at the Wuhan lab in early October 2019-long before the world knew- as proven by first cases and a mobile phone blackout by the government around the area of the lab, where artificial function "gaining" of harmless SARS viruses from bats were created by adding genoma from flu and a new surface proteine (there are numerous articles published between 2015 and 2019 from the Wuhan researchers in international medicine journals to prove that). In fact the Wuhan lab is the biggest SARS virus collection worldwide and they have collected 20+ SARS viruse types from bats all over China. The SARS virus was not contagious at all and had a hard time to enter the human body. With "function gaining" they added exactly what the virus needed to enter the immune system and spread quickly. The lab had serious security problems before that that resulted in a US scrutiny led by the US embassy in Bejing and that the Obama administration cut the US funding for it (before it was an international China/Europe/US funded team there) that was later replaced by a 60m funding from the Pentagon that Mr. Fauci (yes, THE Fauci who is now posing as the expert on Covid!) helped to raise. And the European guy (Peter Daszak) who led the Wuhan research team and (co-)published most articles about the gain functioning used  is now the WHO lead for finding out where the virus came from - a farce! Since then, the Chinese government has acted brutally to contain all intel about Covid and Covid itself even to the UN/WHO, by locking down 10+ million cities just for a few cases and many people who warned early about the existence of Covid magically disappeared.

By the way, in China there are millions of street markets with living animals and they exist there for 5000 years. Everyone who believes that Covid coincidentally first appeared exaclty in Wuhan (where the biggest SARS and biolevel4 lab is) on a fish(!) market, sure also believes in Santa Clause.

I don´t write this to insinuate that we all should sue China for reparation payments like Germany and Japan after WW2 (they could not afford it anyway), but my point is: as long as the whole world is not even open and honest about the type of virus we have to deal with and its origin (a virus built or artificially enhanced by humans behaves differently like any nature grown type who takes much longer to create new mutations to become tricky, otherwise it would have shown up much earlier than in 2020), we will not succeed in containing it. All the assumptions of experts in 2020 how Covid would behave were based on other "natural" viruses like earlier SARS and that was just wishful thinking as nobody wanted to know its origin. And all suprised faces by experts how fast Covid19 mutates and spreads are just unnecessary bad acting given its origin. If experts had seriously considered the lab accident option based on facts rather than declining it from the get, they would have had the chance to develop more reasonable assumptions who to fight it rather than just assuming it will be another natural strain like the earlier ones.

But global politics is still blocking the truth as nobody wants to piss off China. That would cost lot of business there of course and China not producing i-phones or clothing for the world would be much worse than just a few million victims of a pandemic /sarcasm off/

P.S. there is a great summary of evidence of Covid origin collected by a professor of University of Hamburg. It attach it here. It was widely ignored, although it is the best analytical source of events I ever read about the topic.

The text is in German, but the main part of the document are original English sources, e.g. published articles by the Wuhan lab in international journals how they enhanced SARS artificially to increase infectiousness. These original sources from Wuhan speak for themselves. Good 100 page read if you really want to know more.

All most important sentences in the English original sources are marked in yellow, so it is easy to focus within the document and build your own opinion, not influenced by the author who wrote this paper to give people access to these otherwise limited expert articles (although he comes also to the conclusion that the virus is from a lab accident in Wuhan and not from the fish market).

Studie_Corona-Pandemie_Wiesendanger_final (1).pdf

Edited January 4, 2022 by Tom

[jpaul1]

IMO this is not really important to know where the virus comes from. this fuels the conspiracists bull. and God knows how thirsty they are. maybe that story is true. but some chinese died of Covid too. and China is not the first country to own biohazard labs. this just feeds the conspiracists

[Tom]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb jpaul1:

IMO this is not really important to know where the virus comes from. this fuels the conspiracists bull. and God knows how thirsty they are. maybe that story is true. but some chinese died of Covid too. and China is not the first country to own biohazard labs. this just feeds the conspiracists

You can only win against the virus if you know what you´re up against. This is not about conspiracy but about scientific based analytics how to fight it. And this includes to understand how it works and why it mutates so fast (or do you want to relive that Omikron sh.t another 20 times?) and this in turn means that understanding how it was enhanced could help to find a countermeasure.

But as long as the world is comfortable to look the other way just because it could be nasty what we find, we will not get over it. I want normal life back soon. How about you?

Edited January 4, 2022 by Tom

[jpaul1]

7 hours ago, Tom said:

You can only win against the virus if you know what you´re up against. This is not about conspiracy but about scientific based analytics how to fight it. And this includes to understand how it works and why it mutates so fast (or do you want to relive that Omikron sh.t another 20 times?) and this in turn means that understanding how it was enhanced could help to find a countermeasure.

But as long as the world is comfortable to look the other way just because it could be nasty what we find, we will not get over it. I want normal life back soon. How about you?

You are correct, but the thing is it's unrealistic to wait any move from China. can you imagine the global outcry. this is the kind of s.. that won't be declassified until 50 years

[Ferrariman]

Just now, jpaul1 said:

You are correct, but the thing is it's unrealistic to wait any move from China. can you imagine the global outcry. this is the kind of s.. that won't be declassified until 50 years

You'll probably have a better chance of finding out who killed Kennedy.

[pahonu]

Understanding where the virus originated has little if any impact on dealing with the current pandemic.  The virus we are now dealing with has mutated far beyond the original.  Knowing that delta likely originated in India or omicron likely in South Africa is little help either.  At this point, the major focus is still lowering global infection rates and spread to minimize potential new variants from developing.  

Unfortunately, omicron’s rapid spread, though apparently less virulent, does increase the likelihood of new variants.  Higher vaccination rates will slow this spread, even if they are less effective against omicron.  Any new vaccines would be in response to new variants, not the original.  This means global vaccination, though.  It is likely not coincidental that this new variant originated in an area of the world with very low vaccination rates.   

Knowing the origin IS helpful in trying to prevent future outbreaks from becoming pandemic rather than staying a localized epidemic.  This is the goal of early contact tracing.  We are very far beyond that now, unfortunately.  On a side note, many don’t realize that the latest forensic analysis shows that the 1918/19 “Spanish” flu originated in the US, though first detected in Spain.

[jpaul1]

interesting fact: Raul Diaz commander of CENTAC 26 during the cocaine wars is now the CEO of a company that produces hand sanitizers. among others. as he produces also boat shampoos . So if you come across that pal products Hand2hand, and american handee think of giving him a hand

[Mr. Calderon]

I got covid officially two weeks Ago, but médic Said now i cant spread It. 

[Ferrariman]

Well, after being ridiculously careful the wife and I just got over covid. We haven't been to a restaurant since February of 2020.  Only go to a store if absolutely necessary, order groceries online and have them delivered. No visits to anyone's  home or any visitors to ours.   We are both vaccinated and boosted and even had a flu shot this year for the 1st time.

So we were invited to our cousin's home for Christmas Day. 10 people, everyone fully vaccinated.   These are not people we see once every few years, these are very close family members. So after much consideration we said "ok"

I began to feel crappy on the 28th and my wife started to feel it on New Years Eve (at home).  We later found out that the daughter of our cousin, who was with us, took a little trip to downtown Toronto to do some sight seeing and as a result, tested positive the day after Christmas. 

The experts have consistently said that it's a matter of when, not if, that covid will find you, and to me, this proves just how contagious this virus is, no matter how safe you think you are and whether you're vaccinated or not.  It also proves to me that vaccines work!  Our symptoms were like a cold or mild flu.  

Anyway, we're all good now and will, for the immediate future, return to our careful ways until there's some light at the end of the tunnel!

[timm525]

Glad your and Maria are feeling well now and had a mild case. Yes I agree it’s only a matter of time before everyone gets this. This is just going to be the next form fo the flu and it will come with annual or semi annual shots for the newest strain.

[pahonu]

1 hour ago, Ferrariman said:

Well, after being ridiculously careful the wife and I just got over covid. We haven't been to a restaurant since February of 2020.  Only go to a store if absolutely necessary, order groceries online and have them delivered. No visits to anyone's  home or any visitors to ours.   We are both vaccinated and boosted and even had a flu shot this year for the 1st time.

So we were invited to our cousin's home for Christmas Day. 10 people, everyone fully vaccinated.   These are not people we see once every few years, these are very close family members. So after much consideration we said "ok"

I began to feel crappy on the 28th and my wife started to feel it on New Years Eve (at home).  We later found out that the daughter of our cousin, who was with us, took a little trip to downtown Toronto to do some sight seeing and as a result, tested positive the day after Christmas. 

The experts have consistently said that it's a matter of when, not if, that covid will find you, and to me, this proves just how contagious this virus is, no matter how safe you think you are and whether you're vaccinated or not.  It also proves to me that vaccines work!  Our symptoms were like a cold or mild flu.  

Anyway, we're all good now and will, for the immediate future, return to our careful ways until there's some light at the end of the tunnel!

I’m glad you are all feeling better and seem to have no lingering effects of “long Covid” as they say.  My wife has a friend who got it back in early 2021 and still has lingering fatigue and severe headaches.  We lost my uncle a few months ago and a neighbor couple we were close to for 20 years early in the pandemic.   We’re also being really careful and hoping to avoid any further loss, but we are both teachers in full classrooms.  That said,  It’s still difficult to hear people say that it’s nothing more than a bad flu.  Best wishes.

[Dadrian]

56 minutes ago, timm525 said:

Glad your and Maria are feeling well now and had a mild case. Yes I agree it’s only a matter of time before everyone gets this. This is just going to be the next form fo the flu and it will come with annual or semi annual shots for the newest strain.

I am literally the only person I know in my daily life who hasn’t gotten it! Knock on wood  

[Ferrariman]

1 hour ago, Dadrian said:

I am literally the only person I know in my daily life who hasn’t gotten it! Knock on wood  

Don’t jinx it!  I can’t believe how many people I know that have recently gotten it.  

[pahonu]

The number of my students who have been out since we’ve come back in the last few weeks is stunning.  A few are trickling back in and describing the body aches and sore throat as the worst they have ever experienced.  These are 16 and 17 year olds.  I’ve had several classes with close to half of the students home with symptoms in the last two weeks.  I’ve also covered for teachers almost every day on my prep period for colleagues who are out with symptoms or with their children who are out with symptoms.  
 

Those individuals who say distance learning shouldn’t happen again, and I really wish it wouldn’t need to be, aren’t considering the number of staff who are symptomatic and out every day.  I want school to get back to normal as much as anyone, but it can’t when so many staff are ill.  I’m actually shocked I haven’t gotten sick with the number of my kids who have.  Very careful masking and the vaccination plus booster has worked so far.  Those who doubt those procedures are ignorant in my view.  I apologize to fellow forum members ahead of time, but such views are simply in denial of reality. 

[Dadrian]

The wife and I had both rounds of the Moderna and the booster. She got the virus a couple of weeks back and was better in a couple of days. I’ve been sick a few times, but always test negative. Maybe I’m like Crockett with Callie…”immune”.  

[Christine]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Ferrariman:

Well, after being ridiculously careful the wife and I just got over covid. We haven't been to a restaurant since February of 2020.  Only go to a store if absolutely necessary, order groceries online and have them delivered. No visits to anyone's  home or any visitors to ours.   We are both vaccinated and boosted and even had a flu shot this year for the 1st time.

So we were invited to our cousin's home for Christmas Day. 10 people, everyone fully vaccinated.   These are not people we see once every few years, these are very close family members. So after much consideration we said "ok"

I began to feel crappy on the 28th and my wife started to feel it on New Years Eve (at home).  We later found out that the daughter of our cousin, who was with us, took a little trip to downtown Toronto to do some sight seeing and as a result, tested positive the day after Christmas. 

The experts have consistently said that it's a matter of when, not if, that covid will find you, and to me, this proves just how contagious this virus is, no matter how safe you think you are and whether you're vaccinated or not.  It also proves to me that vaccines work!  Our symptoms were like a cold or mild flu.  

Anyway, we're all good now and will, for the immediate future, return to our careful ways until there's some light at the end of the tunnel!

I was shocked at first moment when I read that it got you despite all caution. Now I'm glad to hear that you quickly recovered. 
I have experienced something similar with my patients. The woman- 88 years old- had visited a friend who was always very reasonable all her life. Therefore, my patient assumed that her friend was vaccinated and boostered. She had not asked.
While drinking coffee, her friend told her that she was unvaccinated and that the daughter in whose house she lived, who was also unvaccinated, had just come down with Covid and was at home.
My patient immediately stopped drinking coffee and went home, but she already had the virus. A few days later, she developed a fever and cold symptoms that lasted three days. After that, she was fine again.
Whether everyone will get Covid remains to be seen. 
In the early 1960s, a cousin contracted polio as a baby. But my aunt and uncle didn't know that when my parents came to visit with my two older siblings. My cousin must have been feverish and was correspondingly grumpy.
My sister carried her around all afternoon. A few days later it turned out to be polio. My parents never had either of us kids vaccinated, but neither they, nor my sister, nor my brother got polio.
Therefore, Covid will not get everyone either.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Christine

[Tom]

We are also fully vaccinated and very careful, like @Ferrarimandescribed. Then, yesterday -Saturday night- we got a mail from the principal that two students in the highschool class of my daughter were tested positive (there are 3 PCR tests a week in each school class-Monday, Wednesday and Friday) and the whole class is quarantined until Wednesday at least. These positive results were from the Friday morning test (usually result is there within 24 hours) that was negative for my daughter. So, she was clean on Friday morning and we started thinking who the two positive cases in class would be and how big the risk is to infect yourself on Friday until end of class (school ended at early afternoon).

Well, a few minutes after my daughter got a message from her classmate sitting next to her in class that he was one of the two positive cases.  BINGO!

So, we all need to test today and hope that she was not infected by him yesterday. Being infected in school (you are forced to go there by law in Austria) is the least thing you can control and the least thing I can accept, especially our local dumb*ss politicians here made it a dogma to keep schools open, no matter what it takes and whether it makes sense (i.e. semester is over already with all exams done, so no need to go there while we are having a huge surge in daily infections, so high that state reporting system database has been down for two days already to measure exactly!

Worst of all, I went to see my parents briefly yesterday-both are fully boostered-, not knowing what has happened in school. I notified them immediately and they will test themselves too.

That´s why I was always against the onsite school dogma in Austria, because no one can control this Omicron sh*t, no matter what they tell you. And if you have it, it is a lottery - no-few-strong symptoms, hospital or long covid -everything can happen. With a vaccination the chance NOT to win in this lottery is just higher.

[Robbie C.]

12 hours ago, Dadrian said:

The wife and I had both rounds of the Moderna and the booster. She got the virus a couple of weeks back and was better in a couple of days. I’ve been sick a few times, but always test negative. Maybe I’m like Crockett with Callie…”immune”.  

Or you may have had it and been asymptomatic. It does happen.

[Dadrian]

3 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

Or you may have had it and been asymptomatic.

I totally agree.  Hell, I might have it right now! 

[pahonu]

There is a fairly sizable group that are vaccinated and boosted who are asymptomatic.  Hospitals in the LA area are reporting growing numbers of patients arriving for some other kind of care, like a broken bone for example.  They are tested as part of protocol and found to be positive but with no symptoms.  These are almost all fully vaccinated individuals but they have to quarantine and be treated in a separate area to minimize transmission.

Edited January 23, 2022 by pahonu

[Christine]

This is the reason why we are tested twice a week in our company, even though we are all boosted. Only when the test result is available, we may start our tour.