Thoughts on Covid 19

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

Ha ha Tom, yeah, I only count on the media and the politicians to say things (I turn on & tune into just a little I hear, here and there) and to keep their jobs by saying more things:-). I mean, they're professional talkers, not health and conditioning experts, right?

I agree, the business aspect behind the vaccine and the fact that the experts are playing catch-up with their understand of the pandemic makes what lies ahead less than a sure thing.

[jpaul1]

14 hours ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

This whole event troubles me, and I truly worry about others, and am also concerned about those who think it's a hoax (a WORLDWIDE hoax? unlikely) and based on subverting the economy (?)

the whole world is troubling right now actually. it's like stupidity has spread along together with the virus. when you hear these qanon things, these morons proud of not wearing masks, you wonder if we are not witnessing a Germany in the 30s revival, where dumbness has taken control of a large part of the population

 

14 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

Agree 100%.  As I said in my initial post, I blame stupid, selfish people for the situation we're in. How the hell can you look at the numbers of people who are infected or have died and call this a hoax! It just boils my blood when I hear things like that!   People were advised to refrain from traveling for Thanksgiving and what do I see on TV? Over 9 million of those stupid, selfish people passed through airports for the holiday. How many do you think will actually quarantine themselves when they travel back home?  I guess we'll find out in 2 or 3 weeks. Just in time for a repeat for Christmas. We are truly our own worst enemies.

Now, thankfully, vaccines are just a few weeks away. The fact that what usually takes years was done within a year is truly amazing!  And I'm sure the conspiracy theories about that will begin to fly soon enough.  

There is finally a light at the end of the tunnel, just hang in there!

it's the fault of the politics. what i'm saying isn't a political statement, we're are talking of criminal behaviors here, it's a fact. when you have state governors who refuse to make the mask mandate, while their state is getting into the red zone, it's a disastrous message sent to the population. These guys would be in jail in France. the number of politics in the US that has a criminal behavior is astonishing. the question is: is the virus dangerous, and how to stop it. the answer is simple put more fines, eventually jail all these politics who are behaving like finished retards. this is how we do it here in Europe, and it works. we are taking the problem seriously, because we know that if we mess up, the police will take us back to Earth lightning fast

personnally i won't take the vaccine in the early days. even if they claimed they used a revolutionary way to elaborate it, i won't take short period tested stuff

Edited December 3, 2020 by jpaul1

[Christine]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jpaul1:

 

personnally i won't take the vaccine in the early days. even if they claimed they used a revolutionary way to elaborate it, i won't take short period tested stuff

I agree. As I'm a medical worker Ithought a lot about the vaccine and the fast way it was developed. I can't deny that it will be good for old people, risk groups and people with previous illnesses. Bur nobody can tell us what side effects will occur in five or ten years. Some of my older patients say they'rereminded on Contergan and they say, this medicine wasn't tested enough, too.

I am also one of those people who will be asked to get vaccinated first, but if I am not forced to do so (because otherwise I would not be allowed to work or something), I will not get vaccinated that quickly.

 

[Ferrariman]

1 hour ago, jpaul1 said:

personnally i won't take the vaccine in the early days. even if they claimed they used a revolutionary way to elaborate it, i won't take short period tested stuff

I don't plan to be 1st in line either.  I'm retired, wife doesn't work and we've been doing it right since March. Staying home, groceries delivered, etc.   With our lifestyle we really have no immediate need for the vaccine.  Maybe down the road when we truly see how and if it works but right now?   No thanks!

The older you get, the harder it becomes to trust. (at least for me)   I've always been taught to question authority, and right now, that seems more relevant than ever.

[miamijimf]

Great Britain is injecting the vaccine now.  If we stay up with the news we'll get an early indication of problems.  GB might be a little early in using the vaccine.  I'll wait for the FDA to approve.  Since I'm in the high risk group I don't intend to wait too long.  In the mean time I will continue to live my normal life, carefully but not in fear.  As time goes on they will approve better versions that don't have to be stored at -70 degrees F. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by miamijimf

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

I think that's messed up jpaul 1, that people would be proud not to wear a mask, although I have heard that. C'mon, this isn't a cause to fight for or against, it's a precaution to live by. Gee wiz. I think of my father (passed away right before 2006 happened): he was always concerned about illness & was a step away from being like the TV character "Monk" or Jack Nicholson's Melvin from "As Good As it Gets", so I wonder if he'd deadbolt his door and go all Howard Hughes when it came to COVID. I hate to say it, but I wouldn't want the man to deal with this, so it's the first time I can say it's for the best that he isn't around:-(

[vicegirl85]

I am excited that there are several vaccines that are close to being approved.  Working in a hospital (although not in direct patient care) I will probably be in the second or third tier of people eligible for vaccination, and I do plan to accept it.  A local physician practice has a separate practice that is dedicated to vaccine research studies, and they participated in one of the Pfizer studies, so although I missed a chance to be in that study, I feel good about the way studies have been conducted.

Like everyone else, I'm tired of wearing a mask and not being able to travel or do anything in large groups.  However, for the time being it's more important to me to do what I can to protect my own health and that of others.  I'm really sick of the whiny complainers who say their freedoms are being limited by needing to wear a mask in public.  

[Ferrariman]

2 hours ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

 I think of my father (passed away right before 2006 happened) I hate to say it, but I wouldn't want the man to deal with this, so it's the first time I can say it's for the best that he isn't around:-(

I feel the same. My mom passed in early 2019.  I'm happy she isn't around to deal with this. She had slight Alzheimer's and being in assisted living she never would have understood why I couldn't go to see her.  

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

My goodness Ferrariman, that would've been awful; that Dementia care job I applied for told me during my interview that they only began letting visitors in since late September, and they still had the outside benches facing the front wall to discourage outdoor sitting. I'm glad you didn't have to concern yourself with worry, although I'm sorry you lost your mom (my mother passed away in July 2017).

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

Yeah, vicegirl85, we're all in the same boat with this, dealing with something none of us have dealt with, so I agree, the complaints have gotten stale. I'm wearing a mask right now, and I'm fine with it (I feel pretty free too:-). Makes me wonder if some who complained never had a job in which they had to suit up or wear gloves; did they just turn the job down because of any such requirements?

[pahonu]

22 minutes ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

Makes me wonder if some who complained never had a job in which they had to suit up or wear gloves; did they just turn the job down because of any such requirements?

Very interesting point!  I hadn’t thought of it like that.  My wife and I are very careful about wearing masks in public.  I have honestly struggled to understand why some are so angry and even insistent on doing something that harms them as well as others.  Many jobs require safety precautions like masks, gloves, etc...  You just might be correct that such individuals may never have had an experience requiring protective measures.  Too bad for them as the COVID numbers continue to rise and they are now more at risk.

[Robbie C.]

I find it interesting that people who are so strident about wearing masks are reluctant to accept a vaccine in its early days. If a vaccine is going to protect you and prevent spread far more efficiently than a mask will, isn't it beyond irresponsible to refuse a vaccine?

[pahonu]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

I find it interesting that people who are so strident about wearing masks are reluctant to accept a vaccine in its early days. If a vaccine is going to protect you and prevent spread far more efficiently than a mask will, isn't it beyond irresponsible to refuse a vaccine?

I’ve not seen any data on that.  My wife and I have been very diligent about wearing masks and from very early on too. A neighbor couple died of Covid in the spring.  We plan on getting vaccinated as soon as it becomes available to us, especially as two high school teachers approaching 50.

[Ferrariman]

Here in Toronto you'd be hard pressed to find someone not wearing a mask.  Don't know if it's a Canadian thing or what but people are very good about following the rules here. Maybe it's because our leaders here are all on the same page and their top priority is taking care of people.

I don't personally like wearing a mask, I don't think anyone really does, but I do it because it's the right thing to do. In my opinion it's a very small price to pay when you consider the alternative.  It's a shame that we have the tools to beat this virus, even without a vaccine, and yet people refuse to do it.   Maybe all the anti-maskers should be last in line for the vaccine. 

[Christine]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Ferrariman:

   Maybe all the anti-maskers should be last in line for the vaccine. 

I agree, but I go a bit further than this. In Germany there are often demonstrations of anti-maskers who reject the existence of Covid. I say, if these people get ill because of Covid they shall pay for being in hospital themselves.

[Robbie C.]

12 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

Here in Toronto you'd be hard pressed to find someone not wearing a mask.  Don't know if it's a Canadian thing or what but people are very good about following the rules here. Maybe it's because our leaders here are all on the same page and their top priority is taking care of people.

I don't personally like wearing a mask, I don't think anyone really does, but I do it because it's the right thing to do. In my opinion it's a very small price to pay when you consider the alternative.  It's a shame that we have the tools to beat this virus, even without a vaccine, and yet people refuse to do it.   Maybe all the anti-maskers should be last in line for the vaccine. 

My point is more about people who are rabidly pro-mask but anti-vaccine (often for reasons closer to what anti-mask people espouse than they might be comfortable admitting). 

[pahonu]

2 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

My point is more about people who are rabidly pro-mask but anti-vaccine (often for reasons closer to what anti-mask people espouse than they might be comfortable admitting). 

I can see how anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers may share some characteristics  in common.  In the case of anti-vaxxers, they latched onto early information that later proved incorrect by massive subsequent evidence.  They cannot seem to let go of that early study by the now discredited Andrew Wakefield.  Similarly, some anti-maskers have held to arguments about masks not being effective that circulated early on and have also been completely discredited as scientists have learned about the virus.  Some even argue that they are harmful because of reduced oxygen, also discredited.  I think, however, that there is a lot more complexity among these groups and their views.  I would love to see a comprehensive survey on the topic.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

15 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

Here in Toronto you'd be hard pressed to find someone not wearing a mask.  Don't know if it's a Canadian thing or what but people are very good about following the rules here. Maybe it's because our leaders here are all on the same page and their top priority is taking care of people.

I don't personally like wearing a mask, I don't think anyone really does, but I do it because it's the right thing to do. In my opinion it's a very small price to pay when you consider the alternative.  It's a shame that we have the tools to beat this virus, even without a vaccine, and yet people refuse to do it.   Maybe all the anti-maskers should be last in line for the vaccine. 

I'm not surprised to hear this: up until this year I lived in Angola, NY for most of my life, so I've visited Canada a few times, and to me you guys (and gals) always seem to be on the ball (and so hospitable as well:-), especially in regards to healthcare & bureaucratic leadership.

[Christine]

Am 2.12.2020 um 23:09 schrieb Tom:

There is a second catch with the vaccine. 

Normally the approval process and the phase 3 study for new medicines for specific patients take 3-4 years on average .With Covid they (pharma companies and authorities) have rushed it through the process in 3 MONTHS and approved it for use for 7 billion people on earth.

As I do not assume that pharma companies and FDA wasted billions in last years for nothing on clinical trials, that can only mean that there is quite a risk that the vaccine will either have potential side effects or will not work properly. With a few hundreds of clinical probes over a few months it is definetely not possible to achieve the same safety standard than in 3-4 years.

That's the reason why I'm so sceptical about the vaccine. Nobody knows what side effects it will have in five or ten years. I understand that the companieshurried because many people get more and more impatient.When I do my purchasing I often see people who don't wear their masks the right way or I hear (above all elderly people) say that they don't mind getting Covid because they're old and don't matter if they die. Many of my patients ask daily if I think that this Covid shit wil end soon, but not all of them want to be vaccinated. 

 

[Ferrariman]

I'm not so sure I would consider the vaccines rushed.  I was listening to Dr. Anthony Fauci on a special about vaccines.  As Dr. Fauci explained, there has been research on corona viruses for years. This isn't the first one classified as a corona virus. There was SARS, H1N1, swine flu, etc.   So the vaccines we now have were produced in record time because they were able to build on the research from other vaccines for these other viruses.  I'd also like to think that we've gotten smarter over the years as well  (and maybe just a bit of luck thrown in)  Makes sense to me but I'm no scientist. Time will tell I guess.

[Robbie C.]

Yet the flu vaccine isn't 100% effective, either, as they have to essentially guess every year as to which strain might be common. And it also has side effects, which for some people are worse than the flu. Most of the really effective vaccines (polio, measles, and so on) took decades to develop and perfect; and to convince the majority of people to use.

Unfortunately it's not possible to have it both ways. I could get into numbers comparing COVID to past epidemics and pandemics (which people in the developed world have been fortunate enough to avoid for the last 100 years or so), but there's no point. People have already made up their minds, with a lot of help from media that's more interested in ratings than facts. You can't fall back on the science because it's changing every day. That's normal. It's how things work in the real world. In the early days of anything science is a guide of sorts...a guide that changes constantly as more is learned and previous assumptions confirmed or invalidated. Nothing more, nothing less.

[jpaul1]

6 hours ago, Christine said:

I agree, but I go a bit further than this. In Germany there are often demonstrations of anti-maskers who reject the existence of Covid. I say, if these people get ill because of Covid they shall pay for being in hospital themselves.

make them pay you can't as you need to proove they weren't using a mask in an unreasonnable way. but you can fine them during their demonstrations, yeah. and if repeated jail them. for some reasons we are witnessing lot of these people right now, who are nothing but mentally ill people. in France we have some too. the kind who wants to rebuild the world, but when you ask them to sit around a table, or to enumerate what they want you realize the head is empty. sadly these are by millions in the USA with completely deviant and obscures cabals. this is a mental disease, nothing else. these people are ill. i'm not saying this in a derogatory manner. just looks at the facts. look at how they behave, at what they want, at what they claim. these people are just ill

 

5 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

My point is more about people who are rabidly pro-mask but anti-vaccine (often for reasons closer to what anti-mask people espouse than they might be comfortable admitting). 

you can't compare masks, and vaccine. masks are side effect free, while vaccines are not. if the anti maskers had done what we told them for ages, we wouldn't be in a situation where the hospitals are overwhelmed, and where we had to take a poorly tested vaccine. if everybody had behaved in a responsible manner, and wore a mask, the flow would had probably been contained. no one, absolutely no one can say if the vaccine will be side effect free. it can be a totally wonderful vaccine, as it can turn into a public health disaster. i don't say it will turn into a disaster, but people have perfectly the right to be mistrusful. refusing to wear a mask on another hand is nothing but mental illness

Edited December 5, 2020 by jpaul1

[Robbie C.]

I think you need to be very careful about labeling people mentally ill. Many would say the same of you for rejecting a vaccine based on some invented worst case scenarios. But I'll leave you to that.

[RedDragon86]

You just know in a few years time they are going to apologize for the side effects.

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by RedDragon86

[Mr. Vigilante]

We will be hearing the commercials...."You may be entitled to compensation".