Thoughts on Covid 19

[vicegirl85]

4 hours ago, Christine said:

I think this has got to do with the fact that we think more about the possible consequences of the vaccination. I agree. I also want to return to normal life, meet with my children, my granddaughter (she's six months old) and my friends. I want to visit restaurants and book conventions, make readings and some things more. My younger daughter got on Friday a recon notification for the vaccine, we didn't, but the Diakonia is often a bit slower than the others. I'm curious about your second vaccination. Please tell me how it was.

I haven't received the second dose yet--am scheduled to receive it on January 19.  I'll let you know how it goes

[vicegirl85]

9 hours ago, Vicefan7777 said:

I am friends with some veterans who served in Vietnam so they are at that high risk age.  One told me his doctor told him that because of all the shots he was given while in the service his risk factor is actually lower as the vaccines given made his body more immune to this new virus. I too got multiple shots while in the Air Force and got my flu and pneumonia shots last month so I can say I feel good about what I was told.  However, I wonder if this is one doctor's opinion or if any real studies have been conducted to confirm this. I still take all precautions as recommended. 

This idea (of prior vaccines boosting our immune systems to better fight COVID-19) has been suggested within the medical/scientific community.  It's not a fringe group or some extremist position.  Before the current COVID-19 vaccines were given emergency use approval, it was even suggested that an extra dose of the MMR vaccine might be useful for stimulating immunity.  MMR has been around for a long time, and it's very effective in preventing measles, mumps, and rubella.  Because it has been available and in use for over 40 years, it really has no surprise late reactions.  No controlled studies have been done to assess the ability of MMR or other older vaccines to protect against COVID-19, and at this time in the midst of the pandemic, I don't know that it would be really useful to try to add a mass vaccination campaign for adults to take an MMR (or other) vaccine now.  In addition, MMR is a live vaccine, and would probably receive minimal acceptance from younger women in childbearing years (pregnant women or those who are trying to become pregnant are not advised to receive live vaccines, although those who have been found to be nonimmune are encouraged to be vaccinated ASAP after given birth).  Hesitancy with the current new COVID-19 vaccines has been fairly common among this same group, to which many healthcare workers belong.

To sum up, there may be validity to the idea that people who have been previously vaccinated for other diseases may have a robust immune system that can more easily resist COVID-19.  But I would not put all of my eggs into that basket when we do have availability of a COVID-specific vaccine (whether now or in the next 6 months).

For the New Year, I wish good health to all here, and I hope that if you are able to get the opportunity for a COVID-19 vaccine, that you will take it

 

  

[Christine]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb vicegirl85:

I haven't received the second dose yet--am scheduled to receive it on January 19.  I'll let you know how it goes

I know that you hadn't received it yet.

[Christine]

Today we all received the message that the area where I'm living has the highest quote of Covid 19 deseases. Therefore, there is a curfew from midnight today until January 25th from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m.

[AndrewRemington]

58 minutes ago, Christine said:

Today we all received the message that the area where I'm living has the highest quote of Covid 19 deseases. Therefore, there is a curfew from midnight today until January 25th from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m.

That is very sad. I’m so sorry to hear that.

[Glades]

3 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

This idea (of prior vaccines boosting our immune systems to better fight COVID-19) has been suggested within the medical/scientific community.  It's not a fringe group or some extremist position.  Before the current COVID-19 vaccines were given emergency use approval, it was even suggested that an extra dose of the MMR vaccine might be useful for stimulating immunity.  MMR has been around for a long time, and it's very effective in preventing measles, mumps, and rubella.  Because it has been available and in use for over 40 years, it really has no surprise late reactions.  No controlled studies have been done to assess the ability of MMR or other older vaccines to protect against COVID-19, and at this time in the midst of the pandemic, I don't know that it would be really useful to try to add a mass vaccination campaign for adults to take an MMR (or other) vaccine now.  In addition, MMR is a live vaccine, and would probably receive minimal acceptance from younger women in childbearing years (pregnant women or those who are trying to become pregnant are not advised to receive live vaccines, although those who have been found to be nonimmune are encouraged to be vaccinated ASAP after given birth).  Hesitancy with the current new COVID-19 vaccines has been fairly common among this same group, to which many healthcare workers belong.

To sum up, there may be validity to the idea that people who have been previously vaccinated for other diseases may have a robust immune system that can more easily resist COVID-19.  But I would not put all of my eggs into that basket when we do have availability of a COVID-specific vaccine (whether now or in the next 6 months).

I think, that´s a very intersting topic!

As  you mentioned, MMR is a live vaccine. A Danish scientist (Peter Aaby) who has been vaccinating babies in Africa for decades has found that overall infant mortality is significantly reduced after MMR vaccination, even when there is no measles outbreak at all! The same is true for polio as a live vaccine, but not for inactivated vaccines, such as pertussis, diphtheria, the inactivated polio vaccine etc.
Aaby concludes that live vaccines (and only live vaccines) train the immune system overall. So the babies then cope better not only with the specific disease they were vaccinated against, but with all of them!
I don't know if it has been studied how long this effect lasts and if it also is true for adults.

 

[miamijimf]

Got my first shot of the Maderna vaccine, no problems with the arm etc after the shot.  Several friends have gotten covid lately so I thought it was worth the risk, I'm not a kid anymore, except mentally of course.  Had to drive to Orlando to get it, smooth operation.  Interesting that this vaccine is approved for emergency use only by the FDA.

[pahonu]

3 hours ago, miamijimf said:

Got my first shot of the Maderna vaccine, no problems with the arm etc after the shot.  Several friends have gotten covid lately so I thought it was worth the risk, I'm not a kid anymore, except mentally of course.  Had to drive to Orlando to get it, smooth operation.  Interesting that this vaccine is approved for emergency use only by the FDA.

Good to hear Jim.  It’s coming fast now.  
 

A coworker I’ve known for 25 years is hospitalized.  One of my students had it hit her family hard.  She lost two of her grandparents two days apart and her dad is hospitalized.  She and her two sisters are having some pretty powerful symptoms considering their youth.

[Christine]

I think more and more about taking the vaccination because I hate the weekly tests. They are dreadful. Sometimes it feels as if the doctor tries to drag my brain out of my head and sometimes I think he tries to pull my tonsils out of my nose. Unfortunately the doctor can't promise that these tests will be superfluous after taking the vaccination.

[jpaul1]

the tests here aren't painful at all. and it takes 15 min to know the result. if you base on the USA, and Brazil situations, i think it's common sense to get vaccinated. i read an article about the situation in the Amazonas. they are out of oxygen there, and you read super scary stories of hospital neighbors hearing horrible sounds coming from patients suffocating inside the hospital. you see pictures of nurses in tears. it's quite frightening. the governement has recently sent some oxygen bottles there. but it's really a virus to be taken seriously.

even if i live in a rural area with low cases (~30-40 cases for a 10 000 inhab. town) i'll get vaccinated as soon as possible. my only questioning is about the efficiency of the vaccine against the new variants. but as we probably won't know that information before months, i'll get vaccinated anyways

[Christine]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb jpaul1:

the tests here aren't painful at all. and it takes 15 min to know the result.

The test is painful because the test stick is very thin, but long. The doctor only takes samples from the nose, but he inserts the stick very deeply so that it passes through the nose and into the throat. And the test also takes 15 minutes to know the result.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Christine

[Robbie C.]

The side effects from the second shot are pretty variable, it seems. My partner had none, and I got hit with just about every one they list. They aren't fun, but they do mostly pass with 48 hours or so. I had no major side effects from the first shot.

[jpaul1]

can you develop a little bit. what were the most unpleasant ones

[Robbie C.]

Fatigue was the worst. I don't think I was up for more than a couple of hours at a time yesterday. Followed by body aches and persistent, low-grade nausea. Not fun by any stretch, but better than the virus.

[Christine]

Thanks for your feedback about the vaccination. In Germany the start for the vaccination has been postponed because there's too little vaccine. They hadn't ordered enough. What about the others who had had the vaccination. Do you all feel good?

[Robbie C.]

Based on what we're seeing in my area, the reactions are pretty variable. Like I said, my partner had none aside from maybe limited arm soreness. In my facility we're just into the first set of second doses (I got mine on the second day they were giving them, since I was one of the first to get the first round), so it's still too early to know (and I don't know how valid a sample of 20-some people really is...it will be better once they hit the wider group for second doses). They're also not really reporting on side effects.

[vicegirl85]

I received my second dose of the Moderna vaccine last Friday (the 22nd).  Originally scheduled for Jan 19, but no vaccine is shipped over weekends and holidays (Jan 18 was Martin Luther King Day, a federal holiday), so my hospital receiived our supply a couple of days later than expected.  

I also had more side effects with the second shot (which is kind of expected).  Headache the next day--not terrible, but just nagging.  Maybe some fatigue as well, although not really aching.  Monday I still felt some injection site soreness, but otherwise back to normal with no headache or fatigue.

On 1/15/2021 at 9:16 AM, miamijimf said:

Got my first shot of the Maderna vaccine, no problems with the arm etc after the shot.  Several friends have gotten covid lately so I thought it was worth the risk, I'm not a kid anymore, except mentally of course.  Had to drive to Orlando to get it, smooth operation.  Interesting that this vaccine is approved for emergency use only by the FDA.

Jim, that's because while the large Phase 3 trials/ studies showed high effectiveness and few ill effects, the time frame after the study participants had their shots had not reached the full study period (2 years in the case of Pfizer).  Therefore they didn't have data on things like long-term immunity or possible late adverse effects.  Moderna and Pfizer both expect to eventually attain full approval, but it was felt by the most knowledgeable experts in vaccines and infectious diseases that enough data was available to show it was safe and really would be beneficial to approve them at the emergency use level.

I've read that Moderna (at least) is already working to ensure its vaccine is effective on the new UK, South African, and Brazillian strains.  

I'm not trying to ignore the other COVID-19 vaccines that have been introduced in other parts of the world, or the Johnson&Johnson vaccine that (I understand) is close to receiving emergency use approval.  But at this time, in the US, Pfizer and Moderna are the only COVID vaccines available, and I don't know enough about any others to comment.   

[Christine]

On February 19th I will receive  my first dose of Covid vaccine. I'm ciúrious to see how I take it.

[miamijimf]

Had my second shot of the Maderna vaccine yesterday.  Today I had chills and low grade fever for about 8 hrs but feel fine now.  Ref vaccines.  I read that they only prevent you from getting sick from the virus not from contracting or spreading it.  Also it supposedly takes two to three weeks after your last vaccination before you can build up enough antibodies to be useful in case of infection.  You hear so much virus stuff these days but I think this is good info.  What do you think?  Christine?  Thanks in advance.

[Christine]

In fact, according to my information, vaccination only protects you from getting sick. You can still get the virus and pass it on to others. Then it just cannot multiply in your body. This is why it is so important that we all get vaccinated, because if the virus can no longer multiply, it may eventually die.

[Tom]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb miamijimf:

I read that they only prevent you from getting sick from the virus not from contracting or spreading it.  Also it supposedly takes two to three weeks after your last vaccination before you can build up enough antibodies to be useful in case of infection.  You hear so much virus stuff these days but I think this is good info.  What do you think?  Christine?  Thanks in advance.

That is absolutely correct and ignored by many people and media. And it is not new. That was always the case with any vaccine, as this is the concept how vaccines work. No matter if Ebola, Covid or flu. A vaccine trains your body "police" to detect the intruder quickly by showing around a "mug shot" and neutralize him before he can spread and get into exponential growth. It is an alarm system, not a door lock! 

Just to get this into a number´s context: in case of Ebola which has a 50%+fatality only a few dozens(!) of virus particles are enough to get sick, i.e. to trigger exponential growth to reach millions, so that your immune system gets overrun and outnumbered. With a less fatal virus like Covid the number of particles needed to get infected are in the hundreds and it is less risky to die but easier to spread it. Because with Ebola you fall too sick to move very quickly and you cannot spread it anymore. With Covid you can spread it for days without knowing it and without developing symptoms (with or without being vaccinated), so the vaccine is only good for protecting yourself. Thus, viruses will only be wiped out if a critical mass of people (60%+ of population) is vaccinated. That was also the case with older very dangerous other sicknesses like measles or poliomyelitis.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Tom

[pahonu]

A now-retired colleague of mine who taught evolutionary biology once described pandemic spread as having a “Goldilocks zone”.  I’ve never forgotten it.   Essentially, the two variables of transmissibility and virulence have to both be within certain ranges for a pathogen to be successful in causing widespread pandemic.  
 

If it spreads very easily (ie airborne) and has a high morbidity, it will not go very far as all available hosts will quickly disappear, limiting range.  If spread is more difficult (ie bodily fluids) and morbidity high, it will also not go very far or move fast because methods of stopping transmission will be easier.  The other two possibilities with low morbidity are of less concern for exactly that reason.  Common colds spread very easily but are not deadly.  Pathogens with low transmission rates and low morbidity typically disappear without even being described medically.  

A pathogen needs just the right combined levels of transmissibility and morbidity to make global pandemic possible.  That’s why most pandemics remain regional.  Covid-19 is quite obviously and unfortunately in that range.

Edited February 12, 2021 by pahonu

[Christine]

Pandemic is the name of a disease that has broken out worldwide. The regional variant is the epidemic. What we must of course never forget is that today we can travel from Europe to Australia within 24 hours. Of course, this unfortunately supports the spread of such diseases. Covid 19 also needs body fluids and only remains in the air for a certain time in the aerosols. That's why ventilation is so important.
I was skeptical about vaccination for a long time, but after looking into the subject I think it is the only way to get this virus under control. Unfortunately there are many opponents of vaccination.

[pahonu]

1 hour ago, Christine said:

Pandemic is the name of a disease that has broken out worldwide. The regional variant is the epidemic. What we must of course never forget is that today we can travel from Europe to Australia within 24 hours. Of course, this unfortunately supports the spread of such diseases. Covid 19 also needs body fluids and only remains in the air for a certain time in the aerosols. That's why ventilation is so important.
I was skeptical about vaccination for a long time, but after looking into the subject I think it is the only way to get this virus under control. Unfortunately there are many opponents of vaccination.

I very much agree with you about the vaccine.  Epidemiologists are learning that yearly booster shots could even be a necessity given the mutations occurring.

I believe I read that once an epidemic crosses international boundaries or across continents it is reclassified as a pandemic.  Scale plays a role too, I think.

[miamijimf]

Thanks guys, very informative.  What about the two to three weeks after your second shot to build up enough antibodies to keep you from getting sick?  Is this still speculative and really unknown because a lot about this virus is still unknown?  Not that I'm worried about it, I plan to continue to observe all anti-covid etiquette probably for a long long time.