Thoughts on Covid 19

[IA-SteveB]

I'm optimistic as well because I believe in the science.  I am not as optimistic that enough of the world population will buy into the science and do what is recommended.  Everyone has a choice, and I accept that.   

[pahonu]

I was just listening to an epidemiologist this morning on the news and she sees our future with covid as becoming quite similar to how we deal with the flu today.  I am NOT saying it is like the flu!  Just wanted to head that one off. 

Basically she was describing a situation where people get yearly shots like for flu, which reduce likelihood of getting it but more importantly reduces the severity of symptoms.  We typically do not think of the flu as very harmful because we have created methods to reduce transmission and therapeutics to minimize the problems associated with more severe cases.  That wasn’t always true. 
 

In many less developed parts of the world today, a much bigger percentage of those who contract the flu suffer severe health problems and have higher mortality rates.  That’s essentially the way it was everywhere in the world in the past, until medical breakthroughs so minimized its effects that we don’t fear it the same way.  Perhaps that will be the future with covid.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

1 hour ago, IA-SteveB said:

I'm optimistic as well because I believe in the science.  I am not as optimistic that enough of the world population will buy into the science and do what is recommended.  Everyone has a choice, and I accept that.   

Yeah, there's quite a few dismissive people out there when it comes to scientific breakthroughs, as they act like their leg is being pulled or something. I hope more people give this whole thing a chance to proceed and just see where it takes us. Maybe believing in things is corny to some, but I just don't think there's time for cynicism when it comes to sickness vs. health or life vs. death.

[Christine]

I have received my first dose of vaccine about one and a half hour ago.  A few minutes later I got a very odd tremor coming from the inside. Sounds weird, but it felt as if a train was going through the hallway below me. They measured my blood pressure, but it was okay. Now I will see what'll happen during the next days. 

[miamijimf]

4 minutes ago, Christine said:

I have received my first dose of vaccine about one and a half hour ago.  A few minutes later I got a very odd tremor coming from the inside. Sounds weird, but it felt as if a train was going through the hallway below me. They measured my blood pressure, but it was okay. Now I will see what'll happen during the next days. 

Hope you have an easy time.  I had chills, a low grade fever, and tiredness with my 2d dose of the Moderna but it didn't last long.  Did you get the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine or something developed in Europe?

[Christine]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb miamijimf:

  Did you get the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine or something developed in Europe?

As I'm younger than 65 years I received Astra Zenica. Unfortunately, the active ingredient does not necessarily have a good reputation. Ten of my colleagues have already received it and they were all really sick for two to three days. A friend of my daughter-in-law was vaccinated with it on Monday and had to call the ambulance in the evening. She had a blood pressure of 220/140, severe shortness of breath and a rash all over her body. At the hospital, an EKG was written and an IV was given to reduce the blood pressure, but then she was sent home. Rationale: She would be the first to have these symptoms, but she was congratulated because these symptoms would be a sign that the vaccination is working.

[jpaul1]

On 2/14/2021 at 12:53 AM, pahonu said:

COVID-19 deaths in the US have surpassed 480,000 in a little less than a year.  They are not comparable. ..

these deaths were a combination of desastrous (and criminal) politics choices, and bigotry. the cocktail was made at the worst time, and had desastrous consequences

 

On 2/16/2021 at 9:31 PM, IA-SteveB said:

Hopefully we are headed the right way, but some people thought last summer we would be back to normal. I feel safer with the vaccine and I trust the science.  It's other people who don't take this seriously and have no regard for the safety of others that I worry for ... and about.  If anyone is wondering, I work in healthcare so I qualified for a first phase vaccination.

that's a bigotry problem. when you start putting yourself as a religious authority it has no ending. and sadly we are seing quite a lot of these in the States these days (i'm not talking of all Americans, but of an abnormally large part of the population)

 

On 2/16/2021 at 9:35 PM, Christine said:

Some of my collegues had their first dose of Astra Zenica within the last days and they all felt very ill for about two or three days.  I heard that in the German town Braunschweig they had stop to give this vaccination to nursing staff because of too many sick employees. I will get Astra Zenica too on Thursday and I'm not sure what to think about it after all these bad messages. Of course I will have to take the vaccine. I don't have a choice because I don't know what will happen if I deny the vaccination and get ill because of Corona.

astra zeneca is getting bad press right now Christine; all over the world. huge effects after shots, and poor efficiency against rising variants. South africa has even removed it from it's public health strategy. personnally i won't take that thing. But don't worry, if effects are bad, they are extremelly rarely toxic

 

On 2/16/2021 at 9:51 PM, Christine said:

I think one day the time will come when normal life is possible. Think about all the deseases humans had to fight agianst within the last one or two hundred years. It was always horrible, but there was always a way to cope with and to get back to normal. We live in a time of scientic and we can make things possibel that were impossible about one hundred years ago.Therefore I'm sure that the time will come when we don't have to wear masks, can hug our family and friends and travel to other countries again. 

it's not just about the disease. there are also economic consequences, and these are gonna be quite heavy, and quite long. which let us foresee a quite sluggish future. But you're right, we don't care, as we'll be able to fly to Florida

 

[Christine]

Of course, I also see the economic consequences. A number of smaller shops here have already had to close because they can no longer bear the financial burden. My neighbor's husband has been on short-time work since March 2020. She is a hairdresser and will not be able to work again until March 1st. And these are just small examples. Yes you are right. We will have to nibble at the economic consequences for a very long time. That is why a solution must be found so that our economy does not plummet any further.

[jpaul1]

new english variant rising B1.525. like the 3 other variants, it shows a good impassiveness to vaccines. that virus is interesting somewhere. it shows that whatever our technology, we're still a sand grain into our world. we go to the moon, we go to Mars, we make handicapped people walk, but in the same time a small virus stops us whenever it wants. it makes humble. that was my pre-bed thought

Edited February 19, 2021 by jpaul1

[Christine]

This ability to keep adjusting is the problem with viruses. And that's the reason why viruses and bacteria will still be on earth after humans won't be.

[IA-SteveB]

We just have to accept that COVID and its variants are going to be with us forever and we will have to trust the science that keeps us safer.  Getting enough people to trust the science is a huge hurdle we may never be able to clear.  People have a hard time accepting that and seem to decide that they are bored and over it, allowing them to become complacent.  That just exacerbates the problem when people decide for themselves that things are normal.

[Christine]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb IA-SteveB:

We just have to accept that COVID and its variants are going to be with us forever and we will have to trust the science that keeps us safer.  Getting enough people to trust the science is a huge hurdle we may never be able to clear.  People have a hard time accepting that and seem to decide that they are bored and over it, allowing them to become complacent.  That just exacerbates the problem when people decide for themselves that things are normal.

As I wrote in another post, there have always been epidemics and pandemics. Think of the 1918 Spanish flu, smallpox, polio and other diseases. They all tortured people for a period of time before they could be controlled by vaccinations or other measures. I think it will be similar with Covid. Of course, at some point people get tired of restricting themselves all the time and many are afraid for their existence. Smaller shops have already had to close here because the shopkeepers (or tenants) could no longer pay their costs. Employees have lost their jobs and when they have reached a certain age they can no longer get a new job, but are still too young to be able to retire. All of these things gnaw at people and that's why they really want to get back to normal.

[miamijimf]

I keep promising myself I'll get back to Germany.  Might be able to manage it soon hopefully.  Does anyone know if Germany will allow in vaccinated tourists?  Thanks.

[Christine]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb miamijimf:

I keep promising myself I'll get back to Germany.  Might be able to manage it soon hopefully.  Does anyone know if Germany will allow in vaccinated tourists?  Thanks.

I've tried researching it, but it's difficult. According to the Internet, privileges for people who have been vaccinated against Corona are still hotly debated in Germany and many other EU countries. However, since it is not certain whether vaccinated people can still transmit the virus, they do not want to grant these people any special rights. So at the moment it doesn't look so good for your trip to Germany, Jim, but if I hear something else, I'll be happy to let you know.

[miamijimf]

4 hours ago, Christine said:

I've tried researching it, but it's difficult. According to the Internet, privileges for people who have been vaccinated against Corona are still hotly debated in Germany and many other EU countries. However, since it is not certain whether vaccinated people can still transmit the virus, they do not want to grant these people any special rights. So at the moment it doesn't look so good for your trip to Germany, Jim, but if I hear something else, I'll be happy to let you know.

Thanks for looking it up Christine.  Please let me know if anything official comes out.

[Ferrariman]

This is just a little off topic but relative I think.   Tonight are the Golden Globe Awards.  Does anyone really care?  I'm sorry but with everything the world is going through,  the virus,  hunger,  evictions,  doesn't it all seem just a bit inappropriate?   A huge lavish celebration while people are just trying to survive just doesn't sit right with me. Needless to say, I won't be watching.

Thoughts?

[jpaul1]

there is much worse than the golden globes Ferrariman. much worse. the world is subject to a populism wave right now that is worrying me quite much. the bull not only is spreading, but now isn't feared of showing up into daylight anymore. like during european fascism worst hours. and not only in the USA, but everywhere including here in France

[Tom]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Ferrariman:

This is just a little off topic but relative I think.   Tonight are the Golden Globe Awards.  Does anyone really care?  I'm sorry but with everything the world is going through,  the virus,  hunger,  evictions,  doesn't it all seem just a bit inappropriate?   A huge lavish celebration while people are just trying to survive just doesn't sit right with me. Needless to say, I won't be watching.

Thoughts?

Right. There are many daily press topics that are IMHO completely inappropriate in these times.

in Europe eg we have many daily articles about soccer players haggling over new contracts with more than 500.000 Euro a week because existing contracts are not good enough for them while millions of people are dying and losing their jobs. 
 

My reaction to that is that I will reject to read these articles/media and not spend money anymore on such clubs or sports until these people learn how to behave normally in a society. If many others join me they will dig very soon.
 

[jpaul1]

that some people earn so much while others struggle to pay the rent is one of the main problems IMO, if not the core problem. I'm not critizing the rich, i'm just saying the distribution of wealth is not good. history repeats: bad wealth distribution > revolution > dictatorship (revolution can be peaceful by voting). Covid being an aggravating factor

[Tom]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb jpaul1:

that some people earn so much while others struggle to pay the rent is one of the main problems IMO, if not the core problem. I'm not critizing the rich, i'm just saying the distribution of wealth is not good. history repeats: bad wealth distribution > revolution > dictatorship (revolution can be peaceful by voting). Covid being an aggravating factor

don´t get me wrong. Yes. wealth distribution is an issue but I am not naive and a business person myself. But it is simply outrageous (by press and by the celebrities themselves) to get on the news every day on such luxury issues of a completely ignorant minority like 19, 20 or 21 million per year contracts of people who show themselves in restaurants eating gold-coated schnitzels (some soccer players did that).

If there are people who find others crazy enough to pay such amounts that´s weird enough, but no need to show off on it. These amounts are only in play because millions of fans pay high ticket prices and pay-TV fees and many of these fans have lost their jobs or experienced massive income cuts and you simply do not embarrass other people who ultimately not only pay your income but then also become the main reason why these celebrities feel bound to build panic rooms inside their villas. That luxury-brags in the worst crisis since WW2 are not just bad education but also nuts.

[jpaul1]

40 minutes ago, Tom said:

but I am not naive and a business person myself

what do you mean, poverty is a fatality??

personnally i think that if the lower salaries aren't raised up we are heading towards a disaster. if you look all around you it seems like a tide. silent, slow, but that will be there whatever you do. then some may say yeah fine but how do you do the math. the thing is that if we don't do the math dictatorship is awaiting us

it's been centuries we are betting on growth, and creating jobs to save the society. it never succeeded. it didn't prevent Hitlers from reaching the power. there's only one way to calm the beast, it's to increase the purchase power. Don't ask me how, because of course i don't know. but the more time passes by the more i think the chances for a dictator to govern a modern democracy is very high

[Tom]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb jpaul1:

what do you mean, poverty is a fatality??

I mean that a certain spread in wealth distribution is unavoidable in a modern society driven by self motivation and profit maximization (but of course the spread should be limited, as we can see in countries with ever increasing income spreads). Unless, we want to implement communism where equal wealth distribution is mandated.

My point was not to "advertize" the huge spread by bragging in a time of general downturn.

The more many people have nothing to lose, the worse it is for a society as a whole. Rich people who have to live in iron cages in order to be safe from others is not exactly my understanding of (economic) progress.

And, as for the populism/dictatorship issue: yes, the more complex the world gets (and, let´s face it, the current generation is the first one with less wealth and chances than the one before since WW2), the higher the risk that people follow populists with "easy explanations". The Brexit in UK is the best example of collective stupidity in a modern society following a populist who told them that cutting of one leg will make you faster and more independent.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Tom

[Robbie C.]

3 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

This is just a little off topic but relative I think.   Tonight are the Golden Globe Awards.  Does anyone really care?  I'm sorry but with everything the world is going through,  the virus,  hunger,  evictions,  doesn't it all seem just a bit inappropriate?   A huge lavish celebration while people are just trying to survive just doesn't sit right with me. Needless to say, I won't be watching.

Thoughts?

I haven't watched any of that crap for years, honestly. It, like the Grammys and other awards shows, have no bearing on what I watch, listen to, or read, so what do I care what a bunch of industry insiders (who if I may be crude are more interested in jerking each other off than anything else) care about anything? I also tend to feel the same way about professional sports.

As for the rest, I'll respect the limits on political commentary but observe that populism and quite a bit of the income inequity elements are a direct result of globalization and leave it at that.

[pahonu]

29 minutes ago, jpaul1 said:

what do you mean, poverty is a fatality??

personnally i think that if the lower salaries aren't raised up we are heading towards a disaster. if you look all around you it seems like a tide. silent, slow, but that will be there whatever you do. then some may say yeah fine but how do you do the math. the thing is that if we don't do the math dictatorship is awaiting us

it's been centuries we are betting on growth, and creating jobs to save the society. it never succeeded. it didn't prevent Hitlers from reaching the power. there's only one way to calm the beast, it's to increase the purchase power. Don't ask me how, because of course i don't know. but the more time passes by the more i think the chances for a dictator to govern a modern democracy is very high

Income inequality will always exist.  The crucial factor, historically speaking, is how severe will it become before the government, in whatever form, acts to ease the disparity.  

History is full of revolutionary movements made of peasant armies challenging the leadership for their failure to act on this problem.  Many past governments, often monarchical or authoritarian, have failed or refused to address the issue and are no more.  Think about Czarist Russia, Louis XVI in France, or the Porfiriato in Mexico. 

Democratic governments have had a better record of responding and have proven more stable and long-lived for that reason.  Even then, if they cannot deal with the problems effectively, such as Weimar Germany, they may collapse.

Income inequality is certainly not the only reason for revolutionary activity, but it plays a major role in history and should not be ignored.  There is a tipping point in every society where the struggling masses will act.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

On 2/28/2021 at 7:24 AM, Ferrariman said:

This is just a little off topic but relative I think.   Tonight are the Golden Globe Awards.  Does anyone really care?  I'm sorry but with everything the world is going through,  the virus,  hunger,  evictions,  doesn't it all seem just a bit inappropriate?   A huge lavish celebration while people are just trying to survive just doesn't sit right with me. Needless to say, I won't be watching.

Thoughts?

Award shows aren't usually my bag even in better times (I'd rather learn the results after the ceremony), but I do agree that there's a lot out there in the world currently that can make gala events feel especially superfluous. Despite, that, I try to maintain a positive attitude throughout while also taking the time out to ply myself with as many amusing distractions as possible, yet still remaining aware of the numerous issues affecting the population.