My plans for my Daytona replica

[Kavinsky]

Where the door is concerned' date=' there is no way to be sure who replaced it. The first owner after Carl did some things to get everything working (like replacing the HVAC controls with the Corvette ones). He also replaced the AM/FM radio and upgraded the sound system. I don't know who took off the wooden veneer, or did some of the other changes.When Carl got the car, the wood veneer, the original door panels, and the gold spinners, and the trim on the back of the seats was still in tact. I wish Carl could find any of that stuff, but he did say that his shop had recovered all the leather and carpet surfaces.As far as the grill goes, I am not sure I see the issue. Car 4's grill looks perfect as far as shape, and the dull sheen is the result of it being aluminium. The bent part in the pictures may be Car 1. But there is no replacement for the McBurnie grill, as there is nothing I have found on the market to match it. I would like to find one, even as a souvenir.JN[/quote']from what I can tell looking at the old grill photos the grill had never been as shiney as the bumpers but it looks like it was further back in S1 and thus when the light hit the nose it didnt catch on it, allowing the more polished bumpers to show through rather than the grill behind it which because of the oxidation had a matt finish to it, and mixed with the polished up body it had a tendandacy to jump out rather then blend in when it was pushed forward and up and those photos are all of car 4, from the photo shoot from cooper and burnetts thread, the car 4 retirement photo that you posted awhile back right after it arived in tennessee and the black and white photo is from when irish eyes are crying and that goes for both cars and actually its one of the tip offs about which car was used in S2 as I think the grill on car 1 was intact and in its original position where as with car 4 I think because of the damage it was pushed further forward and shoved up and thus when the light hit the nose it gave it sort of an arrow head like look to it and stuck out from the bumpers making the car look less sleak.Car 1 in S1 and S2:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5821&stc=1&d=1335309183http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5822&stc=1&d=1335309185http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5823&stc=1&d=1335309187Car 4 in S1 and S2http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5799&stc=1&d=1335067732http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5827&stc=1&d=1335310907plus the head on shot of sonny burnett's 88' mcburnie with a nearly completely intact grillhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5825&stc=1&d=1335309310vs that 76 mcburnie thats been modernized which looks further forwardhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5824&stc=1&d=1335309309hmm I dont know I suppose it could be mostly the oxidation but I cant help but feel it was also pushed further forward, I mean car 1 was older than car 4 after all so if anything if it was just the oxidation both cars should have looked the same from the frontanother possibilty might have been that the grills were flash chromed and car 1 simply never had its grill polished and thus never lost that shine but well its impossibile to know but I think if the cars hadnt been writen out in S3 carl might have decided to maybe paint them silver inplace of chrome and may have checked out car 4's grill to see if it was indeed damaged as I swear when it was running with highs on in S1 the light never got caught on the grill like it did in S3http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5826&stc=1&d=1335310906

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARiSJWjmFW4

and for me the grill is what defines the front end for me, like the tail pipes do on the rear end hence why I've been really trying to figure out what caused the odd change and why it looks good at some angles while at others it doesnt yet that never happend in S1 for me, save for looking a little rough (which kind of gave it realismn for me as well crockett never shaves, never takes care of his clothes so it only fits that he wasnt exactly easy on his car, plus it was replicating a 15 year old car thats been around and probably been abused like all ferrari's are) and maybe not looking as sleak as it did in S2 because of the seethrough plexyglass but nonetheless it never looked off like it did in buddies and tales of the goat in S2

Where the door is concerned' date=' there is no way to be sure who replaced it. The first owner after Carl did some things to get everything working (like replacing the HVAC controls with the Corvette ones). He also replaced the AM/FM radio and upgraded the sound system. I don't know who took off the wooden veneer, or did some of the other changes.When Carl got the car, the wood veneer, the original door panels, and the gold spinners, and the trim on the back of the seats was still in tact. I wish Carl could find any of that stuff, but he did say that his shop had recovered all the leather and carpet surfaces.As far as the grill goes, I am not sure I see the issue. Car 4's grill looks perfect as far as shape, and the dull sheen is the result of it being aluminium. The bent part in the pictures may be Car 1. But there is no replacement for the McBurnie grill, as there is nothing I have found on the market to match it. I would like to find one, even as a souvenir.JN[/quote']so was the aircon non fuctional in the show then? and actually if he did put the speakers in the back he must have done something to the ones in the doors the leather is gone from the back of the seat but the carpet is still there just mounted lower to mate with the carpet making the whole back end of the seat look smallerhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5828&stc=1&d=1335312480its kind of a subtile perception trick to make the seats seem thinner from the backand actually if you close on the photo you took of the interior you can actually see a rub mark from where the leather straps once werehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5829&stc=1&d=1335312482

[Kavinsky]

more photos

[Sonny-Burnett]

http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5825&stc=1&d=1335309310vs that 76 rowleyhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5824&stc=1&d=1335309309hmm I suppose it could be mostly the oxidation but I cant help but feel it was also pushed further forward, I mean car 1 was older than car 4 after all so if anything if it was just the oxidation both cars should have looked the same from the frontanother possibilty might have been that the grills were flash chromed and car 1 simply never had its grill polished and thus never lost that shine but well its impossibile to know but I think if the cars hadnt been writen out in S3 carl might have decided to maybe paint them silver inplace of chrome and may have checked out car 4's grill to see if it was indeed damaged as I swear when it was running with highs on in S1 the light never got caught on the grill like it did in S3and for me the grill is what defines the front end for me, like the tail pipes do on the rear end hence why I've been really trying to figure out what caused the odd change and why it looks good at some angles while at others it doesnt yet that never happend in S1 for me, save for looking a little rough and maybe not looking as sleak as it did in S2 because of the seethrough plexyglass it never looked off like it did in buddies and tales of the goat in S2

Well not sure what you meant by "nearly completely intact grill" as my grill is not damaged nor missing any parts. I do need to re-attach at one screw point where it is loose. I do agree that the grill is one of the critical features of the nose and its dull finish is not the look I am wanting. The biggest challenge is to find something to restore a nice shine, preferably a chrome kind of look. Wondering if anyone has had to deal with this problem on dulling aluminum and how they resolved? I am thinking maybe Chrome paint, as I have tried every type of polish I could think of.

[Kavinsky]

Well not sure what you meant by "nearly completely intact grill" as my grill is not damaged nor missing any parts. I do need to re-attach at one screw point where it is loose. I do agree that the grill is one of the critical features of the nose and its dull finish is not the look I am wanting. The biggest challenge is to find something to restore a nice shine' date=' preferably a chrome kind of look. Wondering if anyone has had to deal with this problem on dulling aluminum and how they resolved? I am thinking maybe Chrome paint, as I have tried every type of polish I could think of.[/quote']well thats what I mean, I think the vice one took some damage and warped on the left side and upwards from the nose damage causing the spaces between the levels of the grill to ever so slightly bunch together on the left side and move futher forward making it seem too tight for it to blend with the body like it used to in S1 at level angleson your car however besides a few scrapes which is inevitabile on a low slung car your cars nose and grill is pretty much as the day it was made save for that screw thing that you mentioned a little while back, complete with more or less the same shine it had when it was made I'd betalthough I thought you said something about one of the screw mounts being broken, not loose on the top.I personally do want to go with the mcburnie grill has well, maybe cut down and painted but I do prefer it over the rowley grill as well it looks like the rowley grill was based off of one of the daytonas with pop up headlights instead of the plexyglass meaning it was never really rigged up to run with the replicas fixed headlight set up.plus theres other differences between the real daytonas with plexyglass and the pop up headlights and I wouldnt be surprised if it did infact translate to the grills as well as the bumpers are mounted lower on the pop up headlight ones than the fixed ones that sit in the middle like the replicas do.

[Sonny-Burnett]

well thats what I mean' date=' I think the vice one took some damage and warped on the left side and upwards from the nose damage causing the spaces between the levels of the grill to ever so slightly bunch together on the left side and move futher forward making it seem too tight for it to blend with the body like it used to in S1 at level angleson your car however besides a few scrapes which is inevitabile on a low slung car your cars nose and grill is pretty much as the day it was made save for that screw thing that you mentioned a little while back, complete with more or less the same shine it had when it was made I'd betalthough I thought you said something about one of the screw mounts being broken, not loose on the top.I personally do want to go with the mcburnie grill has well, maybe cut down and painted but I do prefer it over the rowley grill as well it looks like the rowley grill was based off of one of the daytonas with pop up headlights instead of the plexyglass meaning it was never really rigged up to run with the replicas fixed headlight set up.plus theres other differences between the real daytonas with plexyglass and the pop up headlights and I wouldnt be surprised if it did infact translate to the grills as well as the bumpers are mounted lower on the pop up headlight ones than the fixed ones that sit in the middle like the replicas do.[/quote']Not sure about seeing grill damages in the cars but wouldn't be surprised as aluminum is easily bent and hard contact on the front end could cause some severe damage. As you saw with my nose (under the front) the previous owner must have hit a few curbs as there are gouges into the fiberglass that at some point I will repair. Hard to see unless you are on your knees. When you showed the front end nose shots of my car and the Rowley earlier in this thread I honestly saw little differences in them and couldn't really see they were positioned much differently. There seemed to be a couple of spaces in the Rowley at joint connections that I didn't have on the McBurnie. Hoping some other Daytona owners will weigh in here about how they resolved the dullling aluminum in the grill.

[Kavinsky]

Not sure about seeing grill damages in the cars but wouldn't be surprised as aluminum is easily bent and hard contact on the front end could cause some severe damage. As you saw with my nose (under the front) the previous owner must have hit a few curbs as there are gouges into the fiberglass that at some point I will repair. Hard to see unless you are on your knees. When you showed the front end nose shots of my car and the Rowley earlier in this thread I honestly saw little differences in them and couldn't really see they were positioned much differently. There seemed to be a couple of spaces in the Rowley at joint connections that I didn't have on the McBurnie. Hoping some other Daytona owners will weigh in here about how they resolved the dullling aluminum in the grill.

yeah thats why I kinda stepped back for a second and said it could just be that the grill went matt but I'm just not sure' date=' only way to know would be to have an intact original grill in hand next to the vice car and do comparisons as I can only do so much with photos and actually thats a modernized mcburnie using rowley parts, a 76 model no less, not a 100% rowley, atleast when it comes to that one I used underneath your car there meaning its a stock mcburnie grill

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrvZJvG3iZU

http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/132405/index.html?no_cache=1&ret=20&request[filter][offset]=0&request[filter][rowcount]=6http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5824&stc=1&d=1335309309and the rowley replica grill looks like this and its quite abit smaller than the typical mcburnie and this is probably the reason why it can be taken out without having to take the bumpers offactually begs the question if the cut down mcburnies could be taken out as well without taking out the bumpers if the edges were trimmed but I gotta wonder if maybe like the headlights (going from double to single) they did change the design of the grill as this mcburnie I found has the top line of the grill clipped on the edges although I dont know if it was the owner who did that or if it came that wayhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5845&stc=1&d=1335397155when it comes to getting it shiney though Sonny I think maybe you should try and contact a few auto body shops and ask them about painting aluminium and see what they can do for you or hell ask around about how those people who maintain 60's era fighter jets manage to get them so shiney as the starfighters, sabers, migs and other planes had plain unpainted aluminium bodies and theres gottta be a trick to keeping those things shineyI mean after all they had to keep a huge ass plane looking good for the military brass at all times so they must have some sort of trick to quickly polish a large area of aluminium as I dont believe they'd spend all day cleaning the damn things as the engines needed to be overhauled every 80 hours back then during the cold war.plus the rockets, guns and everything else for the early defense force back then

[Sonny-Burnett]

yeah thats why I kinda stepped back for a second and said it could just be that the grill went matt but I'm just not sure' date=' only way to know would be to have an intact original grill in hand next to the vice car and do comparisons as I can only do so much with photos and actually thats a modernized mcburnie using rowley parts, a 76 model no less, not a 100% rowley, atleast when it comes to that one I used underneath your car there meaning its a stock mcburnie grill[/quote'] Ah that explains it ...I was looking at a McBurnie grill in your Rowley photo.

and the rowley replica grill looks like this and its quite abit smaller than the typical mcburnie and this is probably the reason why it can be taken out without having to take the bumpers offactually begs the question if the cut down mcburnies could be taken out as well without taking out the bumpers if the edges were trimmed

I think the answer as to the Rowley's shape is that it is an attempt to duplicate the actual grill on a genuine 365 as shown here:[ATTACH=CONFIG]5848[/ATTACH]

when it comes to getting it shiney though Sonny I think maybe you should try and contact a few auto body shops and ask them about painting aluminium and see what they can do for you or hell ask around about how those people who maintain 60's era fighter jets manage to get them so shiney as the starfighters, sabers, migs and other planes had plain unpainted aluminium bodies and theres gottta be a trick to keeping those things shiney

Good idea. Need to try a body shop.

[Kavinsky]

5848[/ATTACH]Good idea. Need to try a body shop.

hmmm funny I never noticed they blacked out the tops and the sides of them before' date=' its never shown up in the photos yet I was thinking that the rowley grill would look a hell of alot better if it had those connecting bits blacked out just like they are on the actual grill and I guess that explains a great deal about how the ferrari ones somehow subtiley seem more sleak even when compaired with the rowley ones[img']http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5850&stc=1&d=1335406128I'm also going to head over to the ferrari forums and find out what the 308 owners do as it looks like they've got some delicate grill work on them toohttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5849&stc=1&d=1335405878hell even if there chromed and thus dont need as much maintenance they might have some tips and tricks for easily polishing those as it looks like those dont come out as well although unlike the Daytona they dont have bumpers blocking the sides (but in the case of this one it does have the fog lights blocking the grill)theres always a way as my father always says

[alleycat]

http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5850&stc=1&d=1335406128I'm also going to head over to the ferrari forums and find out what the 308 owners do as it looks like they've got some delicate grill work on them toohttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5849&stc=1&d=1335405878hell even if there chromed and thus dont need as much maintenance they might have some tips and tricks for easily polishing those as it looks like those dont come out as well although unlike the Daytona they dont have bumpers blocking the sides (but in the case of this one it does have the fog lights blocking the grill)theres always a way as my father always says

It sounds strange but I never noticed the grill on the ferrai's and after seeing these pictures.I like the grill on the Ferrai but would not like it blocked by fog lights either.It would be nice in chrome nice and shiney.

[jurassic narc]

actually begs the question if the cut down mcburnies could be taken out as well without taking out the bumpers if the edges were trimmed but I gotta wonder if maybe like the headlights (going from double to single) they did change the design of the grill as this mcburnie I found has the top line of the grill clipped on the edges although I dont know if it was the owner who did that or if it came that wayhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5845&stc=1&d=1335397155

The McBurnie grill always looked the same, even when he was trying to replicate the Ferrari design (just before he got sued by Ferrari). This photo is from the McBurnie Daytona Construction Manual. It is installed in a single headlight car (later generation) and is the same as the one he shipped with the original bodies with the 4 headlights.

[Kavinsky]

It sounds strange but I never noticed the grill on the ferrai's and after seeing these pictures.I like the grill on the Ferrai but would not like it blocked by fog lights either.It would be nice in chrome nice and shiney.

yeah its because of the way the noses are rigged up' date=' pre 1985 ferraris had the tops stick out infront of the rest of the car and slope down so the light seldome hits those parts while with the testarossa and the 328 they pulled those out making the noses seem less sleak and more blocky:[img']http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5862&stc=1&d=1335571096as its just completely at odds with the rest of the car' date=' I mean hell thats probably one of thee reasons why people flocked to the countach but werent impressed with the TR they brought along at a period photoshoot as the bumper blends in on a countach

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=taA9fsCEU3s

while on a tr it looks out of place and thus making the grills more promenent:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA2T25rPgaw

hell I think for that reason alone is why the 308's and the boxers are the more desired models vs the TR and the 328, hell if ferrari had just put this bumper on with the stock grill and the stock spoilers they'd probably be worth tripple what they are now

The McBurnie grill always looked the same' date=' even when he was trying to replicate the Ferrari design (just before he got sued by Ferrari). This photo is from the McBurnie Daytona Construction Manual. It is installed in a single headlight car (later generation) and is the same as the one he shipped with the original bodies with the 4 headlights.[/quote']ah so someone clipped that one then

[jurassic narc]

ah so someone clipped that one then

No, that's how they were made by McBurnie.

[Kavinsky]

No' date=' that's how they were made by McBurnie.[/quote']nah that's not what I ment, I ment in my photo there:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5845&stc=1&d=1335397155someone clipped the upper part of the grill on this one

[jurassic narc]

http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5845&stc=1&d=1335397155someone clipped the upper part of the grill on this one

No, that's how they were built. The bumper supports connect to the grill where the cut-outs are.

[Sonny-Burnett]

http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5845&stc=1&d=1335397155someone clipped the upper part of the grill on this one

Can't see where you think they were "clipped".

[Kavinsky]

Can't see where you think they were "clipped".

top bit here:

[Sonny-Burnett]

top bit here:

Oh I see that now. Think that is where the bumper frame passes through to connect to the body. [ATTACH=CONFIG]5885[/ATTACH]

[jurassic narc]

Oh I see that now. Think that is where the bumper frame passes through to connect to the body. [ATTACH=CONFIG]5885[/ATTACH]

Exactly. The McBurnie grill is designed so that the bumper supports have to pass through, and in some cases are attached to that area of the grill. If that area were not open the bumper supports would have to weave through that area and both would be even harder to work around.The Ferrari like grill that all of the other car builders used is much easier to deal with. I can drop the grill without touching the bumpers if I am careful. The bumpers in front on the Roberts cars are much more substantial tubular frames and connect direct to the cars frame where the Corvette bumpers attached. They might actually protect the car. On some of the McBurnies the bumper supports are flat and will fold upon impact.The McBurnie grill is the only one like that, and a pretty good indication that the car is a McBurnie. Some of the last cars built by McBurnie and his sub-contractors were with the Ferrari like grill (at least they have them now when they try to sell them on EBay).

[Sonny-Burnett]

Exactly. The McBurnie grill is designed so that the bumper supports have to pass through' date=' and in some cases are attached to that area of the grill. If that area were not open the bumper supports would have to weave through that area and both would be even harder to work around.The Ferrari like grill that all of the other car builders used is much easier to deal with. I can drop the grill without touching the bumpers if I am careful. The bumpers in front on the Roberts cars are much more substantial tubular frames and connect direct to the cars frame where the Corvette bumpers attached. They might actually protect the car. On some of the McBurnies the bumper supports are flat and will fold upon impact.The McBurnie grill is the only one like that, and a pretty good indication that the car is a McBurnie. Some of the last cars built by McBurnie and his sub-contractors were with the Ferrari like grill (at least they have them now when they try to sell them on EBay).[/quote']What you're saying makes a lot of sense and is consistent with what I see. I haven't looked carefully in awhile (has been too cold to drive here) but recalling flat supports passing through that area as you describe. And not easy to remove this grill at all.Impact?? :sick:Wanting to find something to shine the grill or chrome it up too as it is large and noticebly dull in appearance from time and corrosion. Mine was built in 1988...do you know when the last ones were built by McBurnie? Also I came across something a few weeks ago that suggested that McBurnie did not build that many cars in his shop (fewer than 30?) but that he sold many more kits assembled by other shops. Can't verify this but can document that mine was built by McBurnie. Do you know anything about this?

[Sonny-Burnett]

Exactly. The McBurnie grill is designed so that the bumper supports have to pass through' date=' and in some cases are attached to that area of the grill. If that area were not open the bumper supports would have to weave through that area and both would be even harder to work around.The Ferrari like grill that all of the other car builders used is much easier to deal with. I can drop the grill without touching the bumpers if I am careful. The bumpers in front on the Roberts cars are much more substantial tubular frames and connect direct to the cars frame where the Corvette bumpers attached. They might actually protect the car. On some of the McBurnies the bumper supports are flat and will fold upon impact.The McBurnie grill is the only one like that, and a pretty good indication that the car is a McBurnie. Some of the last cars built by McBurnie and his sub-contractors were with the Ferrari like grill (at least they have them now when they try to sell them on EBay).[/quote']Here's a better shot of the cutaway[ATTACH=CONFIG]5890[/ATTACH]

[jurassic narc]

What you're saying makes a lot of sense and is consistent with what I see. I haven't looked carefully in awhile (has been too cold to drive here) but recalling flat supports passing through that area as you describe. And not easy to remove this grill at all.Impact?? :sick:Wanting to find something to shine the grill or chrome it up too as it is large and noticebly dull in appearance from time and corrosion. Mine was built in 1988...do you know when the last ones were built by McBurnie? Also I came across something a few weeks ago that suggested that McBurnie did not build that many cars in his shop (fewer than 30?) but that he sold many more kits assembled by other shops. Can't verify this but can document that mine was built by McBurnie. Do you know anything about this?

McBurnie quit building in about 88, that I do know. He lost the case to Ferrari in August of 1988. He told me he built about 25 cars (he was not 100% on the number because his shop burned down with all his records). Both Carl Roberts and Rowley contend that there are probably less than 100 running cars, and that several kits were sold and never built. There were several companies (possbily as many as 10) who had their own molds and produced cars. But in 1988 Ferrari threatened the parts suppliers in their own stream that they would no longer get Ferrari parts if the "kit cars" were being built from their inventory. One of the best parts places was here in Atlanta, and they started requiring that you furnish your Ferrari serial number before they would supply 365GTS parts. The parts houses dried up the part of the market that the Ferrari litigation didn't kill.Now the parts houses are indifferent when you ask for parts for a 365.Most of the people involved in that business (Carl Roberts, Tom McBurnie and Rowley) have told me that they produced less than 30 cars each. They believe that the replicars are as rare as the real 365GTS (124 built total by Ferrari with the convertible top).

[Sonny-Burnett]

McBurnie quit building in about 88' date=' that I do know. He lost the case to Ferrari in August of 1988. He told me he built about 25 cars (he was not 100% on the number because his shop burned down with all his records). Both Carl Roberts and Rowley contend that there are probably less than 100 running cars, and that several kits were sold and never built. There were several companies (possbily as many as 10) who had their own molds and produced cars. But in 1988 Ferrari threatened the parts suppliers in their own stream that they would no longer get Ferrari parts if the "kit cars" were being built from their inventory. One of the best parts places was here in Atlanta, and they started requiring that you furnish your Ferrari serial number before they would supply 365GTS parts. The parts houses dried up the part of the market that the Ferrari litigation didn't kill.Now the parts houses are indifferent when you ask for parts for a 365.Most of the people involved in that business (Carl Roberts, Tom McBurnie and Rowley) have told me that they produced less than 30 cars each. They believe that the replicars are as rare as the real 365GTS (124 built total by Ferrari with the convertible top).[/quote']Wow this is really cool, as I thought what I read a few weeks ago was likely fictionalized. I had guessed there might be several hundred McBurnies floating around out there and so my car would be one of many. But if McBurnie built around 25 cars I do in fact have a very rare car...more rare than I ever thought until now. Only know this from invoices and purchase order documents from the original owner that I have. Wondering though if McBurnie may have sold his kits out to other shops to build and could have the McBurnie label on them and, if so, wonder how many were built? At least I thought I read somewhere that McBurnie would sell you a kit to do your own construction even though he was not actually involved in the build. I think I now have a new appreciation for the worth of my car and a renewed desire to start stocking up on certain replacement parts for the future. Thanks for the history and the sleuthing, my friend.

[Kavinsky]

Exactly. The McBurnie grill is designed so that the bumper supports have to pass through' date=' and in some cases are attached to that area of the grill. If that area were not open the bumper supports would have to weave through that area and both would be even harder to work around.The Ferrari like grill that all of the other car builders used is much easier to deal with. I can drop the grill without touching the bumpers if I am careful. The bumpers in front on the Roberts cars are much more substantial tubular frames and connect direct to the cars frame where the Corvette bumpers attached. They might actually protect the car. On some of the McBurnies the bumper supports are flat and will fold upon impact.The McBurnie grill is the only one like that, and a pretty good indication that the car is a McBurnie. Some of the last cars built by McBurnie and his sub-contractors were with the Ferrari like grill (at least they have them now when they try to sell them on EBay).[/quote']actually its probably better not to have them connect to the frame, the bumper set up they had only worked if they were hit a 100% on past the 1972 models, if they werent it could cause serious frame damage and did usually from what that corvette restorer Tom Falcon said in his book

McBurnie quit building in about 88' date=' that I do know. He lost the case to Ferrari in August of 1988. He told me he built about 25 cars (he was not 100% on the number because his shop burned down with all his records). Both Carl Roberts and Rowley contend that there are probably less than 100 running cars, and that several kits were sold and never built. There were several companies (possbily as many as 10) who had their own molds and produced cars. But in 1988 Ferrari threatened the parts suppliers in their own stream that they would no longer get Ferrari parts if the "kit cars" were being built from their inventory. One of the best parts places was here in Atlanta, and they started requiring that you furnish your Ferrari serial number before they would supply 365GTS parts. The parts houses dried up the part of the market that the Ferrari litigation didn't kill.Now the parts houses are indifferent when you ask for parts for a 365.Most of the people involved in that business (Carl Roberts, Tom McBurnie and Rowley) have told me that they produced less than 30 cars each. They believe that the replicars are as rare as the real 365GTS (124 built total by Ferrari with the convertible top).[/quote']well as rare as the geniune spyders, they built 1400 coupes and because of the popularity of MV alot of them got converted, probably about 50 I'd say just from the ads I've come across on that expensive car websiteI think it was 124 or 127 geniune spyders as back then the coupes were the more desired cars as when you reached a 130 the top blew in on them and with autobahn speeds usually going between 90 - 140 MPH that was kind of a drag.hence why the covertibiles were far more wanted in america and the coupes were the way to go in europe.but still I did think there was more than just 30 per maker basically, hmph no wonder its so hard to find a mcburnie grill then.

[Sonny-Burnett]

actually its probably better not to have them connect to the frame' date=' the bumper set up they had only worked if they were hit a 100% on past the 1972 models, if they werent it could cause serious frame damage and did usually from what that corvette restorer Tom Falcon said in his bookwell as rare as the geniune spyders, they built 1400 coupes and because of the popularity of MV alot of them got converted, probably about 50 I'd say just from the ads I've come across on that expensive car websiteI think it was 124 or 127 geniune spyders as back then the coupes were the more desired cars as when you reached a 130 the top blew in on them and with autobahn speeds usually going between 90 - 140 MPH that was kind of a drag.hence why the covertibiles were far more wanted in america and the coupes were the way to go in europe.but still I did think there was more than just 30 per maker basically, hmph no wonder its so hard to find a mcburnie grill then.[/quote']Didn't know there was a speed issue with the convertible tops on the Ferraris. They were all built prior to the 80s however and before Vice. Convertibles may have been more popular in the States and with our speed limits being generally a lot lower than in Europe they are fun to drive. I recall doing 145 MPH on the autobahn once in an Audi. Never had my Daytona past 90 yet but at that speed, and with the top down, you feel the wind blasting through the cabin. It is really exhilarating. I did drive it at night on the highway with the top up doing maybe 75 and it was fine, didn't have any issues. There is a lot of airflow that can pass through this top anyway so probably relieves some of the air pressure differential.

[Kavinsky]

QUOTE=Sonny-Burnett;252135]Didn't know there was a speed issue with the convertible tops on the Ferraris. They were all built prior to the 80s however and before Vice. Convertibles may have been more popular in the States and with our speed limits being generally a lot lower than in Europe they are fun to drive. I recall doing 145 MPH on the autobahn once in an Audi. Never had my Daytona past 90 yet but at that speed, and with the top down, you feel the wind blasting through the cabin. It is really exhilarating. I did drive it at night on the highway with the top up doing maybe 75 and it was fine, didn't have any issues. There is a lot of airflow that can pass through this top anyway so probably relieves some of the air pressure differential.yeah and it happened with this very car actually, this thing poped up in classic and sports car magazine when it was for sale and they were doing a story on it about a year ago:http://www.flickr.com/photos/48817379@N03/4833888580/it belonged to some heiress who owned some expensive shop in england back in the early 70's and at that time englands highways didnt have a speed limit (hard to believe nowadays that england used to be that free) and she took it up to a 130 on there and complained to the factory that it blew in at that speed, twice.keep in mind we're talking england here with wet and rainy weather, hence why for the most part she probably kept the top up all the time.and actually that was reported on the lamborghini murcielago roadster as well, same deal the top blows in at about a 100

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ip7xYvE3iE

probably the key reason why the new ferrari californian has a metal roof now along with the 458 I believe, along with the latest MX5 and alot of other supercars nowadays since the murcielago.