The Ferrari Daytonas of Miami Vice

[Kavinsky]

Good thoughts and appreciate the research here. I would be reluctant to try stainless cleaner though on aluminum as they are completely different metals. I think I need to talk to some specialty shops and maybe auto body shops as you mentioned before to get their views on aluminum. I'm going to have the car detailed soon as the interior is filthy (never had it detailed as I thought a dash assembly would come along much sooner) and I will ask about that.

well part of the reason why I brought up the stainless steel one is because Jurrasic's got a set of the stainless steel bumpers from Carl Roberts that he put on his car' date=' so he'd need both, one for the alumimum grill and one for the bumpers. and if it was really just dumb bad luck that someone polished the grill of car 4 with a lousy polish and didnt know it was aluminumn it would explain the change in the grills appearance perfectly as that was early in the season after its overhaul for S2 and why would that happen in the first place?plus I had forgotten to initally save the photos of your grill and I noticed it lined up with the shot you took of yours vs my shot from Buddies here[img']http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5957&stc=1&d=1336351601http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5956&stc=1&d=1336351599its pretty much the same angle just further back and a little lower and the grill looks the same save for matt finish of car 4 in that shot which seems line up with the lousy polish that lady used in her trailer so logically after finding out one bad aluminium polish could do that to it it fits as car 4 seemed to always be polished and clean for its shoots in S2 so it was probably just bad luck that that happened and it showed up in the shots in the fiirst place.and its a simple fix too apparently.

The trim' date=' according to Carl was black and a light tan (almost butter-cream). With that being said' date=' the color of tan changes from picture to picture. As far as I know the carpet, and the leather trim was all black. The only exception is the carpet on the bottom of the dash which is a rust color. The seat backs have carpet on them because that is what the 1978-82 Corvette seats had. I would guess that it is easier to do that than to fill in that area and then cover with leather.I have never been able to get an answer to why the black stripe was added to the back of the seats. Carl has no recollection why it was done, and since it was done between Season one and Season two it was done at his shop. I thought about the stripe giving the illusion of a headrest, but it is much to wide for that.It would be great to get some clear definition as to what materials and colors were used. 1-What kind of carpet was used for the floors; 2-what color leather was used for the main color and the trim and what kind of leather; 3-what color carpet was used at the bottom of the dash, and why is it different than any other capret in the car; 4-what color wood trim was used, what kind of wood was it No one seems to have any particular recollection. The literature indicates Wilton Wool and Connolly leather, but the carpet seems more like German Velour. The wood looks different in every picture that you see. And for that matter, so does the color of the tan leather. If the color in the Camera Car is the same as from the show, then the leather is a very light tan with black trim. The carpet is black. Sometimes the more you learn the more questions it generates.JN[/quote'']well I think the reason why the black was added on the back was to thin out the back of the seats in the shots and make it seem thinner as it seems kind of wide from the back in S1as black has been known to be used to make things seem thinner or smaller so I think it kinda fits plus the back when compaired to the front of the seat seemed kind of dull when compaired with the frontI mean think about it you've got two key black accents on the front of the seat and none on the back, you need something to make it seem more balanced as it makes the back end seem wider in the back than the front.

LOL as to the Star Trek reference and I did actually know that bit of trivia about his uniform as I was a big fan in my youth. I recall watching the show on very low definition black and whites and color tvs many moons ago. I don't have the DVDs though to see how it looks on HD TV these days. As to the seats' date=' I hear what you are saying about the potential for color interpretation but' date=' imo, even in this second photo if you compare the top black dash cover with the wide seat back stripes, the stripes, at least to me, appear dark chocolate. There does seem to be a contrast in colors I think between the seat stripe and dash in the same shot. Maybe someone has access to some higher def pics they can post here. Back to Carl Roberts... I could be recalling wrong but I thought at one time you or someone may have mentioned that he re-did the striping on the seats as part of his maintenance??Thought if so perhaps he could have changed out the color but now that you mention about all the work done on Car4 after Carl, then it is conceivable that black could have been added at that point if we accept that they may have been changed. So on that thought or premise, do you have a straight on shot of the seats in Car4 (as it is today) that you personally took that I could see in here please ?[/quote'']so hold on so Kirks green shirt was actually gold? I guess that kind of fits as I think the idea was command was gold, science or medical was blue or green and engineering and security was red and thats the way it was rigged up in the actual navy to an extent atleast on the flight deck of a carrier with some of the deck crew wore purple and on some of the decks its color coated to let you know who should be on that deck.and well I had heard of the same thing happening with the ship models where the guy who made the Enterprise D Andrew Provert, the same guy who revised the Phase 2 enterprise into the TMP one intended for it to have the same look as the original enterprise or the movie enterprise from the first 6 films with a light grey or a white finish of the old tv show but because of the modern film quality and filters used in the late 80's it accidentally gave it a medium grey/dark grey with a bluish tint look on camera while it was a light grey green in person that gave the original its whitish grey look back in the 60'sDitto with the Enterprise C actually if I remember correctly, always kind of wished we'd seen more of that ship in TNG in its original configuration.but looking at the daytona today photos and the show shots to me it seems to be in traditional black and tan.

[Sonny-Burnett]

well part of the reason why I brought up the stainless steel one is because Jurrasic's got a set of the stainless steel bumpers from Carl Roberts that he put on his car' date=' so he'd need both' date=' one for the alumimum grill and one for the bumpers.[/quote'']I have the same stainless bumpers and do need to protect them even though they are still in very good shape.

plus I had forgotten to initally save the photos of your grill and I noticed it lined up with the shot you took of yours vs my shot from Buddies herehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5957&stc=1&d=1336351601

They do look the same and even mounted at the same angle.

well I think the reason why the black was added on the back was to thin out the back of the seats in the shots and make it seem thinner as it seems kind of wide from the back in S1as black has been known to be used to make things seem thinner or smaller so I think it kinda fits plus the back when compaired to the front of the seat seemed kind of dull when compaired with the frontI mean think about it you've got two key black accents on the front of the seat and none on the back, you need something to make it seem more balanced as it makes the back end seem wider in the back than the front.

Not disputing that Car4 today may have black striping all over the seats. Btw, do you have a Hi Def shot of Car4 taken recently?

but looking at the daytona today photos and the show shots to me it seems to be in traditional black and tan

Have a look at any screen shot with the black dash and the seat striping shown at the same time and see if there is not a clear contrast in color as your eye moves from one to the other. To me every screen cap that I have seen where both black dash and seat striping is shown there is a clear color contrast. And my HD TV is perfectly calibrated for color as I had Sharp do that online through a network link to my TV. If you have some screen caps pls post them here and lets all have a look. And perhaps because my stripes are chocolate brown it is easier for me to see that color in the somewhat lower def screen caps.

[Kavinsky]

I have the same stainless bumpers and do need to protect them even though they are still in very good shape. They do look the same and even mounted at the same angle. Not disputing that Car4 today may have black striping all over the seats. Btw' date=' do you have a Hi Def shot of Car4 taken recently?Have a look at any screen shot with the black dash and the seat striping shown at the same time and see if there is not a clear contrast in color as your eye moves from one to the other. To me every screen cap that I have seen where both black dash and seat striping is shown there is a clear color contrast. And my HD TV is perfectly calibrated for color as I had Sharp do that online through a network link to my TV. If you have some screen caps pls post them here and lets all have a look. And perhaps because my stripes are chocolate brown it is easier for me to see that color in the somewhat lower def screen caps.[/quote']Hold on I thought the bumpers on the mcburnies and the vice car are aluminium along with the grill, so are you sure about that? because I was really sure that it was only Jurrasic with his Carl Roberts bumpers that had stainless steel units and an aluminium grill while the others were all around aluminum with the bumpers and grill.I'm afraid I dont have close up high def shots of car 4 taken recently outside of the three jurrasic sent me awhile back to resize for his topic the daytonas of miami vice in the glossary section back when my old email worked on this computer as I think I deleted close up of the 240 mph speedo and one other outside of itnamely I have front, rear and close up above the seats which despite it not showing the rear section behind the seats in great detail you can really see the close up details quite well to the point where I can see the scuff marks left by the black leather stripes on the back of the driver seat along with the shape of the dash quite welland yeah jurrasics photos are THAT high a resoloution that you can even notice details that little that would only show up if you were there in person, but sadly that's all Ive got but I've done pretty well with what I've got.I dont quite know about a contrast, I think what you may be seeing is a color difference, but not in the typical senseyou remember what I said about the color difference between the body and the windshield frame? sometimes matt black when mixed with gloss black can look to be a touch brown in some shots based on how the light hits it:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5959&stc=1&d=1336358877http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5958&stc=1&d=1336358875and I think the seats have a gloss black striping job done to them mixed with a tan leather and black ontop of its feasabile to say that when the lighting hits it it may give it with the brown look your getting at as tan in certain lighting looks brown so maybe it spilled over into the black on the dvd transfers on a big screenactually that was kind of the reason why I thought about going with a cream interor instead of tan as to give it a lighter less tan more white contrast because I had noticed sort of the same thing going on in certain shotsas I kind of like the look of the cream interior of the TR in the light and dark a touch better than tan also the other thing is the way the dash looks from the front, the leather wraps over the fold between the top half of the dash to mate with the black piece where the vents are, maybe your picking something up there?http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5960&stc=1&d=1336358879

[jurassic narc]

ah so you wanna shoot for the volo cars dash then huh?http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5925&stc=1&d=1336104150

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmcbOucaeUM

the one thing I think wouldnt put on though is the metal plate the replica dashs have like on this one and maybe use some different style gauges but still circular as to eminate the ones on the show car as the rowley ones look too busy for my taste with the red and yellow dials atleast on this one which looks like it may have been a custom oneactually what kind of dash does your car have? 78 - 82?

Probably won't do anything to settle the question, but the VOLO car seats were out of Car 1, and they were ruined by the time VOLO got the car. But the seats were recreated by their upholstery shop in what appears to be tan and black.

[jurassic narc]

-Brian W

To give you an idea how hard it is to identify colors photos, your windshield trim looks like it is different colors on the right than it is on the left in the photo you posted. It actually looks like it is three different colors overall. I am sure that is lighting and position of the camera, but then that is what makes the fine details of color and even texture hard to define.Any chance you could post the bill from ADMI for your car?

[Kavinsky]

I have the same stainless bumpers and do need to protect them even though they are still in very good shape. They do look the same and even mounted at the same angle. Not disputing that Car4 today may have black striping all over the seats. Btw' date=' do you have a Hi Def shot of Car4 taken recently?Have a look at any screen shot with the black dash and the seat striping shown at the same time and see if there is not a clear contrast in color as your eye moves from one to the other. To me every screen cap that I have seen where both black dash and seat striping is shown there is a clear color contrast. And my HD TV is perfectly calibrated for color as I had Sharp do that online through a network link to my TV. If you have some screen caps pls post them here and lets all have a look. And perhaps because my stripes are chocolate brown it is easier for me to see that color in the somewhat lower def screen caps.[/quote']Sonny these are the shots I have here and I swear besides the tan leather looking darker and more brown at night when the light isnt hitting anything I dont detect any sort of brown on the stripinghttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5978&stc=1&d=1336606945http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5977&stc=1&d=1336606944http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5976&stc=1&d=1336606942 and while in person while the lights not hitting it it looks grey in jurrasics shots http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5981&stc=1&d=1336608145http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5974&stc=1&d=1336606568http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5975&stc=1&d=1336606569See looks tan where the light hits it and white/grey where it barely does or at an odd angle as the tops up in this shot and the tonau is sitting under the passenger seat.the other possibility besides maybe color bleeding where the contrast of one color bleeds onto the other in a transfer of some sort is maybe car 1 had that contrast' date=' Tan, dark brown with black on the dash as Jurrasic did say that he thought they redid the dash to try and replicate car 4 for S2, so maybe only the front striping of car 1's seats were dark brown while the front of the dash and the back of the seats is black.and maybe after it car 1 was taken apart for the TR replica attempt carl redid the entire car for that absimal film speed zone in black and tan rather than black and dark brown, I mean it was the prototype after all and well Markadian didnt notice the dimensions difference at first with the damaged chasis of the 76 car and you always try stuff with the prototypes you wouldnt do with the production cars for whatever reason.there is also possibily another explanation to this, I'm starting to think either theres a faint line under the top of car 4's original door panels that only shows up at level angles or they used car 1 abit more than we thought originally

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXzDDTPz9XY

Look at 0:05, Car 4's original door panels dont have that line on the top there, or atleast they dont usually show upCar 4's right and left door panels during the shows run:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5980&stc=1&d=1336607750Car 1 left:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5979&stc=1&d=1336607744plus well look at the difference between the look of a black charger with modern film and tech vs 1984

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7S9sbzSx00

Two different versions:

it could be as simple as the quality of the transfer isnt that good on what version you have, I mean there is alot of variabiles here but I think really we can say definatively car 4 is tan and black and has always been that way, car 1 however as it was the prototype might have had that contrast but I doubt it as it looks black to me in the whatever works shot but we'll never know for sure.and the rust colored carpet there on car 4 that doesnt line up with anything in car 4 interiors now I think was used as to look like wood from a distance, as to make it look like the burlwood covered the lower half of the dash plus you cant exactly use wood or leather around a heater or a vent without it warping from the constant temp changes.1984 with tape player with vette radio controls on it and mercedes climate control controls, honestly I kinda prefer the look of those controls to the stock vette climate control onesnow with normal vette climate controls and cd playerhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5981&stc=1&d=1336608145and also the speakers are behind the seats now instead of being in the door panelshttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5975&stc=1&d=1336606569funny though on a different note thats the one thing I've always disagreed with Jay Leno about that he always says, nothing is nicer than having an engine roar to your favorite music while driving. guess he's not much of a music person, would explain a great deal actually as Conan always had better music on even in the early years.including Dwany Eddy.

[jurassic narc]

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXzDDTPz9XY Look at 0:05, Car 4's original door panels dont have that line on the top there, or atleast they dont usually show upCar 4's right and left door panels during the shows run:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5980&stc=1&d=1336607750Car 1 left:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5979&stc=1&d=1336607744plus well look at the difference between the look of a black charger with modern film and tech vs 1984

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7S9sbzSx00

Two different versions:

it could be as simple as the quality of the transfer isnt that good on what version you have, I mean there is alot of variabiles here but I think really we can say definatively car 4 is tan and black and has always been that way, car 1 however as it was the prototype might have had that contrast but I doubt it as it looks black to me in the whatever works shot but we'll never know for sure.and the rust colored carpet there on car 4 that doesnt line up with anything in car 4 interiors now I think was used as to look like wood from a distance, as to make it look like the burlwood covered the lower half of the dash plus you cant exactly use wood or leather around a heater or a vent without it warping from the constant temp changes.1984 with tape player with vette radio controls on it and mercedes climate control controls, honestly I kinda prefer the look of those controls to the stock vette climate control onesnow with normal vette climate controls and cd playerhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5981&stc=1&d=1336608145and also the speakers are behind the seats now instead of being in the door panelshttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5975&stc=1&d=1336606569funny though on a different note thats the one thing I've always disagreed with Jay Leno about that he always says, nothing is nicer than having an engine roar to your favorite music while driving. guess he's not much of a music person, would explain a great deal actually as Conan always had better music on even in the early years.including Dwany Eddy.

I think this color thing boils down to the eye of the beholder. I had to choose a tan color early on that would be the anchor for the interior. If I had seen Car 4 in real life earlier, I would have gone much, much lighter. And yet in some pictures it is hard to tell that my tan is a saddle where the Camera Car is more a biscuit color.And frankly, when you start looking at materials you will find that there are a number of colors of black!!And you can build your car to satisfy your own eye, and still be right on target as far as anyone would know.The key is to satisfy your own visualization of the car. To create a carbon copy is not as satisfying as the artistic challenge of creating your own take on the classic.

[Kavinsky]

I think this color thing boils down to the eye of the beholder. I had to choose a tan color early on that would be the anchor for the interior. If I had seen Car 4 in real life earlier' date=' I would have gone much' date=' much lighter. And yet in some pictures it is hard to tell that my tan is a saddle where the Camera Car is more a biscuit color.And frankly, when you start looking at materials you will find that there are a number of colors of black!!And you can build your car to satisfy your own eye, and still be right on target as far as anyone would know.The key is to satisfy your own visualization of the car. To create a carbon copy is not as satisfying as the artistic challenge of creating your own take on the classic.[/quote'']True and its like anything else you start with something and build it up to what you want, if you start shooting for an exact copy (or what you think is an exact copy of something) you may end up with something that you really didnt want that the real thing isnt even likeits all play by ear and I've been thinking thats pretty much the way Ill treat the daytona/vette project and the bren ten replacement project (still havent found a damn 645 nor a CZ 75 in .40 yet)and yeah what's tan to the germans might be very different from what the italians call tan, theres regional differences with everything and what those people like what vs what other people like in a different part of the same country or even a completely different country thats right next to it.hell even I didn't pick up on how the britsh like the dash pad to match the exterior of the car, it never even occured to me or even how the germans like thin front tires and fat rear ones with an all matching black interior.and I was wondering why my father had one come out from under him back in the 60's with the 911 like an old drag car on the street, that explains that perfectly and thats why he went for the 914 rather than the 911 even though he had the money for either or anything he wanted really in germany, hell he was making enough back then he could have bought a brand new miura actually.although I havent been studying them, I'm mostly a fan of american muscle cars and the old italian cars as they seem to be quite unique based on who made them and what they set out to do, I mean hell if you didnt know old lamborghini was italian and saw one with a black interior you'd probably think it was made on the opposite side of the world when compaired to the ferrari's of the time period.hell up until the miura threw some crazyness into the world of italian cars the ferraris of that time period were honestly save for the engines and performance and maybe 2 or 3 of the 250 series quite dulland I find the 275 to be downright boring looking even in bright yellow, that was the reason why till I even saw the daytona in MV I hadnt even bothered looking them up, nothing captivated me like the countach or the muscle cars till I saw it.

[jurassic narc]

True and its like anything else you start with something and build it up to what you want' date=' if you start shooting for an exact copy of something you may end up with something that you didnt want that the real thing isnt even likeits all play by ear and I've been thinking thats pretty much the way Ill treat the daytona/vette project and the bren ten replacement project (still havent found a damn 645 nor a CZ 75 in .40 yet)and yeah what's tan to the germans might be very different from what the italians call tan' date=' theres regional differences with everything and what those people like what vs what other people like in a different part of the same country or even a completely different country thats right next to it.hell even I didn't pick up on how the britsh like the dash pad to match the exterior of the car, it never even occured to me or even how the germans like thin front tires and fat rear ones with an all matching black interior.and I was wondering why my father had one come out from under him back in the 60's with the 911 like an old drag car on the street, that explains that perfectly.although I havent been studying them, I'm mostly a fan of american muscle cars and the old italian cars as they seem to be quite unique based on who made them and what they set out to do, I mean hell if you didnt know old lamborghini was italian and saw one with a black interior you'd probably think it was made on the opposite side of the world when compaired to the ferrari's of the time period.hell up until the miura threw some crazyness into the world of italian cars the ferraris of that time period were honestly save for the engines and performance and maybe 2 or 3 of the 250 series quite dulland I find the 275 to be downright boring looking even in bright yellow, that was the reason why till I even saw the daytona in MV I hadnt even bothered looking them up, nothing captivated me like the countach or the muscle cars till I saw it.[/quote'']Exactly, and the beauty of the Daytona is as much in my memories of Miami Vice when I was a young narc rather than the reality of my research today.Interesting about the gun, also. I am torn between finding a .40 cal Smith that I could carry and shoot for work v. a 645 or a 4506 which would be much less practical. I have been looking, but not too seriously until the Daytona projects for the summer are done.

[Kavinsky]

Exactly' date=' and the beauty of the Daytona is as much in my memories of Miami Vice when I was a young narc rather than the reality of my research today.Interesting about the gun' date=' also. I am torn between finding a .40 cal Smith that I could carry and shoot for work v. a 645 or a 4506 which would be much less practical. I have been looking, but not too seriously until the Daytona projects for the summer are done.[/quote'']yeah not many cars can get me to get off of my seat and get as close to the tv to see just what the hell is it and say wow what is that outloud and it was this very shot that did it to when I was watching the pilot for the first time when they were running it as an advertisement for the film. Hell only 2 cars have done that in my life, The Daytona and the 71' Cuda, both of which were his rides.and the running of the pilot probably had the exact opposite effect in that respect, got many more people interested in the show than the film! and yeah with the guns though I'd say if you dont mind the full wrap around rubber grip on the square trigger guarded 4506/645 transitional like he had in the show (basically a prototype 4506, one of 200 made, with a 645 frame and slide rigged up with new trigger geomitry and a full wrap around grip and new checkering on the front and stock rear sight, not target) and you dont care for polished stainless in the slightest go for that although he had the slide polished on that one to show up while the frame was beadblasted, making the slide look bigger than the rest of the gun hence why it looks so damn big in the end shootout although it looked kinda odd rigged up like that to me from the side, basically the reverse of the treatment on the BT and it shows up in the final shootout too:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=L53HHQhmFJs

the 645 was all stock though with gloss black 2 piece grips, very traditional but also rarer than the 4506 (made between 85 - 87 only, 4506 was made from 88 till 2000 and still then to 2007 for leo's only) and was pretty much just a full sized model 39 in stainless, a very proven 9mm made in .45 acp and even the earliest ones are super reliabile and were used officially as LA swat weapons according to one of the retired swat guys on the smith and wesson forumsthe downsides being that the trigger sometimes needs a trigger job as there can be a slight hitch in the SA trigger pull and the right side safety lever screw sometimes needs locktight to keep it on, both of which can be smithed, DIY in the safety levers case or you could replace the safety lever with one off of a 4506 or just cap it off from the cap of a 4006.plus the brushed stainless finish and the checkering can be a little rough and the latter ones seem much nicer than the early ones finish wise although all of that can and has been delt with some gunsmithing and refinishing regardless of these little drawbacks people love the damn things.and also the steel base plates of the 645 mags have been known to catch on car seats and rip them hence why most people use the 4506 mags in them which are like the wilson combat mags with plastic rounded baseplates that are solidly built with good quality materials, and I use wilsons in the gold cup and I dont think I've ever had a jam with one of them.also with new followers from the 4506 or 645 series 1911 mags will work with them toopersonally I only finally made up my mind and said its gotta be the 645 for me about a month ago as well I found a stock 4506 with a square trigger guard and target sights at the gunshow that had been there last year and well it struck me as being abnormally plain jane like a Sig SAUER and that pretty much made up my mind for me as if its plain jane I'm not going to like it.as I've never been one for the standard looking guns, hence why when I do go for one its got to have something that the others dont have on it or behind it or there not normally rigged up that way. Example model 49: PGS ho - 3 grips and great patina on it, K22: its from the 1950's era, beat to hell with great patina and a hell of a story behind it, Model 29: its a rare transitional year, blued , 6 inch barrel and the last of the pinned and reccessed ones made in 79 - 80, the very last of the old style ones and it belonged to a collector who never shot it, meaning he basically just saved it for me the next guy, how very kind of him.So anyways I've decided to go for the rarer harder to find and less apreciated 645 and leave it stock (within reason) like Crockett did and just do up a new CZ like the bren as they still make those and thus its fine to modify and do something crazy with where as with a classic its not necessarily a good idea to do that to it, especially if it was only made for 3 years and you want to drastically change its look. hasnt stopped quite a few people though as I've come across full beadblasted ones, nicked plated ones, magnaported SAO versions, basically everything including a cut down 4 inch version with a 1911 barrel bushing and one that was "blued"/ covered in a glock like coating, anything you could think of someone has done all except of what I thought of doing, beadblasted over stainless with a new front black insert sight thats of lower profile yet angled like a target sight, not carry like on the BT. capped right side safety and widended front strap checkering to match the backstrips checkering till I ruled that out and figured I might as well try that on a new CZ 75 and leave the 645 stock and apreciate it for what it is not what I wished it had been in S3, plus the CZ's a double stack and I've never had any double stacks besides the glocks because of the MA crap and the 75's what the BT was based on anyways and has a cocked and locked ability and the double stack deal hence why cooper went with it in the first place so if any gun should be Bren tened its the 75 not the 645.Now with the CZ 75 in .40 they are reportably snappier than the 9mm version as the .40's about a half an inch shorter (4.7 vs 5 inch on the BT) than it should be to be properly set up for that caliber (.45's and .40s should have 5 inch barrels or if there shorter they need heavier ones to counter the power of the cartridge, 9mm's and .380's need a minmal of 3.7 inches to work right without any problems for the most part, the 669 and 659, Zitos gun, being an exception to the rule)but still they are reportably reliable but snappy nontheless, if you dont mind the look of the sigs the sig 229 and 239 were rigged up for .40 from the getgo and has a heavier than normal slide in the 229s case and thus shoots better than a 9mm sized up to .40 which is what most of them seem to be the CZ includedand the M and P .40 seems to be a good choice as well I just didnt care for the trigger on that one (and avoid the compact as the barel length thing is in play there and one got rated a D for feeding problems in my guntest magazine, 9mm too dont know how they screwed that one up) and the glock 22 is good to along browning FNP as it was originally made in .45

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJe-qgErreY

can be carried cocked and locked atleast with the tactical model there (not sure if that just so happened to be a decocker version as it doesnt say although I think it has both a decocker when pushed down and can be carried cocked and locked when pushed up) like the BT and the CZ and its sized down to .40 like the old .38 specials on a .44 special frame revolvers that were so coveted for there shootabilty at the turn of the century.anyways so I'm thinking of using the CZ 75 in .40 to replicate the bren ten as a range only gun using the rased up target rear sight from the CZ 85 to match its top profile, 22 pound recoil spring (the same power spring the 10mm's need for full power ammo but can still work just fine with .40 smith with as the person who said .40 short and weak was frankly someone who didnt know what they were talking about) if its still snappy after that I could also just have it magna ported and put in a stainless steel guide rod as to negate the snappyness and yet replicate the look of the bren with as its got a full length slide unlike the 9mm versions and also round the trigger guard to match the bren in profile there too.plus it would make it easier to find a holster for it after doing that and also on that note the beretta 92FS holsters work with the 645 and the square trigger guarded 4506's so if you have trouble finding one or any gun with a square trigger guard for them try those.

[Sonny-Burnett]

To give you an idea how hard it is to identify colors photos' date=' your windshield trim looks like it is different colors on the right than it is on the left in the photo you posted. It actually looks like it is three different colors overall. I am sure that is lighting and position of the camera, but then that is what makes the fine details of color and even texture hard to define.Any chance you could post the bill from ADMI for your car?[/quote']Sorry just noticed this comment and think you meant it for me?I can try and copy the invoice though it was printed on badly faded (and now discolored) old dot-matrix printer paper. When I went through it line by line I see some differences to my car as it is today. It says I had a tan conv top and tan tonneau, though what is on the car, and it seems to be original, is a black conv top and and a black canvas tonneau (this could have been replaced). Interestingly some of the descriptions are: DOOR PANELS: SADDLE/BK ( though they appear to be leather) CARPETS: PALOMINO NYLON (though they are a light tan color) SEAT UPHOLSTERY: SADDLE/BK LTR (BK as in black I think) TOP: TAN/TAN STYFST TONNEAU: TAN/TAN STYFST THRESHOLD PLATES: SADDLE LTR DASH & RAILS: BLK- LTR SUN VISORS: BK VINYL TRUNK LINING: INSTALLED CONSOLE: SADDLE LTR So to check my sanity I did have to go out, and see the car in some finally bright spring (but shaded) light and take another look at my seats and I think that sun fading and severe wear and tear on the interior from however it was stored and driven may have contributed to color confusion. The seats are severely worn and sun faded. And I needed to get inches away to see that perhaps I do have a badly faded set of black stripes after all. Guess I needed to get my nose up close to really see that it was severely faded and almost bleeds into the tan color, probably giving it a brown tone to me. I think that they used a very subtle shade of black even when originally installed as the color does not jump out like that of the dash and maybe that was by design, or perhaps because the strips are so thin it is not as noticeable. Or perhaps my eyes just aren't what they used to be. :)So now I just need to understand why the screen caps still look brown to me. May need to wait for Blu-ray or see if I have color blindness for subtle shades of black/brown?

[jurassic narc]

Interestingly some of the descriptions are: DOOR PANELS: SADDLE/BK ( though they appear to be leather) CARPETS: PALOMINO NYLON (though they are a light tan color) SEAT UPHOLSTERY: SADDLE/BK LTR (BK as in black I think) TOP: TAN/TAN STYFST TONNEAU: TAN/TAN STYFST THRESHOLD PLATES: SADDLE LTR DASH & RAILS: BLK- LTR SUN VISORS: BK VINYL TRUNK LINING: INSTALLED CONSOLE: SADDLE LTR

DOOR PANELS: SADDLE/BK I am guessing this is tan and blk leather on the door panels (but no mention of Connolly lleather--which is about triple the price) McBurnie contended he used Connolly leather, but Marc Chichetti said no. CARPETS: PALOMINO NYLON This is the German Velour that I contend McBurnie was using rather than Wilton Wool. Palomino is a tan/gold color SEAT UPHOLSTERY: SADDLE/BK LTR (BK as in black I think) Tan and blk leather TOP: TAN/TAN STYFST Stayfast is a brand of Canvas used on German cars-usually the convertible top TONNEAU: TAN/TAN STYFST Some of Rowley's tonneaus were canvas THRESHOLD PLATES: SADDLE LTR assume this is the trim by the seats at the door thresholds DASH & RAILS: BLK- LTR SUN VISORS: BK VINYL TRUNK LINING: INSTALLED What about the trunk lining? CONSOLE: SADDLE LTR

[Sonny-Burnett]

DOOR PANELS: SADDLE/BK I am guessing this is tan and blk leather on the door panels (but no mention of Connolly lleather--which is about triple the price) McBurnie contended he used Connolly leather' date=' but Marc Chichetti said no.[/quote']Believe it is Connolly leather as there is a swatch of material labelled as "Connolly Saddle" included in the owner's brochures and it appears to be the same material as is on the seats, though darker from not being in the sun. SADDLE is referenced on the ADMI invoice. Plus the pricing is very high in 1988 dollars...each seat was $400, the door panels were $225 each, the center console was $300, the top was $650, dash and rails were $450, and carpets were $450. The total billing for the interior work (carpet and leather) was $4024 in 1988 dollars, not small change.

CARPETS: PALOMINO NYLON This is the German Velour that I contend McBurnie was using rather than Wilton Wool. Palomino is a tan/gold color

Ok didn't know what Palomino Nylon referred to. My carpet is a light tan color. (it was but badly needs cleaning)

SEAT UPHOLSTERY: SADDLE/BK LTR (BK as in black I think) Tan and blk leather

Yes I think so even though BLK is also used in here to refer to black.

TOP: TAN/TAN STYFST Stayfast is a brand of Canvas used on German cars-usually the convertible top TONNEAU: TAN/TAN STYFST Some of Rowley's tonneaus were canvas

Wondered about Stayfast as that is some specialized kind of canvas I think. Not sure where I would replace my top but it does need it. And my top and cover are not Tan as the invoice shows it was billed out as.

THRESHOLD PLATES: SADDLE LTR assume this is the trim by the seats at the door thresholds

Right, the trim by and over the inner door threshold running up under the dash is the same tan leather. DASH & RAILS: BLK- LTR SUN VISORS: BK VINYL

TRUNK LINING: INSTALLED What about the trunk lining?

Just says was installed. From memory it is kind of a blackish gray short bristle cut carpet with some rigid fiberboard backing on the sides and back for form fitting and retaining its shape. CONSOLE: SADDLE LTR

[jurassic narc]

Believe it is Connolly leather as there is a swatch of material labelled as "Connolly Saddle" included in the owner's brochures and it appears to be the same material as is on the seats' date=' though darker from not being in the sun. SADDLE is referenced on the ADMI invoice. Plus the pricing is very high in 1988 dollars...each seat was $400, the door panels were $225 each, the center console was $300, the top was $650, dash and rails were $450, and carpets were $450. The total billing for the interior work (carpet and leather) was $4024 in 1988 dollars, not small change. Ok didn't know what Palomino Nylon referred to. My carpet is a light tan color. (it was but badly needs cleaning) Yes I think so even though BLK is also used in here to refer to black. Wondered about Stayfast as that is some specialized kind of canvas I think. Not sure where I would replace my top but it does need it. And my top and cover are not Tan as the invoice shows it was billed out as. Right, the trim by and over the inner door threshold running up under the dash is the same tan leather. DASH & RAILS: BLK- LTR SUN VISORS: BK VINYL Just says was installed. From memory it is kind of a blackish gray short bristle cut carpet with some rigid fiberboard backing on the sides and back for form fitting and retaining its shape. CONSOLE: SADDLE LTR[/quote']Good that it was Connolly leather, although if it wasn't maintained by the previous owner the advantage may be gone. Connolly is a very supple leather produced in England. The carpet in Ferraris of that vintage was in fact velour, so to have that is actually consitent with the real cars.Stayfast canvas is what you want for the top. It is more optional for the tonneau. But the Stayfast will hold out water and weather longer. One of the things to check is when the top is up do you have open areas. I had to do a lot of work to get the area between the top and the door/window area. Ended up replacing the moulding all around the door.

[Kavinsky]

Sorry just noticed this comment and think you meant it for me?I can try and copy the invoice though it was printed on badly faded (and now discolored) old dot-matrix printer paper. When I went through it line by line I see some differences to my car as it is today. It says I had a tan conv top and tan tonneau' date=' though what is on the car, and it seems to be original, is a black conv top and and a black canvas tonneau (this could have been replaced). Interestingly some of the descriptions are: DOOR PANELS: SADDLE/BK ( though they appear to be leather) CARPETS: PALOMINO NYLON (though they are a light tan color) SEAT UPHOLSTERY: SADDLE/BK LTR (BK as in black I think) TOP: TAN/TAN STYFST TONNEAU: TAN/TAN STYFST THRESHOLD PLATES: SADDLE LTR DASH & RAILS: BLK- LTR SUN VISORS: BK VINYL TRUNK LINING: INSTALLED CONSOLE: SADDLE LTR So to check my sanity I did have to go out, and see the car in some finally bright spring (but shaded) light and take another look at my seats and I think that sun fading and severe wear and tear on the interior from however it was stored and driven may have contributed to color confusion. The seats are severely worn and sun faded. And I needed to get inches away to see that perhaps I do have a badly faded set of black stripes after all. Guess I needed to get my nose up close to really see that it was severely faded and almost bleeds into the tan color, probably giving it a brown tone to me. I think that they used a very subtle shade of black even when originally installed as the color does not jump out like that of the dash and maybe that was by design, or perhaps because the strips are so thin it is not as noticeable. Or perhaps my eyes just aren't what they used to be. :)So now I just need to understand why the screen caps still look brown to me. May need to wait for Blu-ray or see if I have color blindness for subtle shades of black/brown? [/quote']I think he ment brian with the pre 77 mcburnie interior kit on his, actually that begs the question did they ever make a kit for the 77 - 82 ones as I dont think I've ever actually come across oneSonny do you mean the center stripes where you sit on the seat or the outers that go from top to bottom on car 4 in the front?because I didnt notice any side stripes on your seats from the photos you've posted, actually I dont think I've really seen a close up of them either along with the doorsand with the trunk lining I think I have come across one or two that didnt have any sort of lining awhile back, plus if you dont use the trunk it probably wouldnt matter to that particular person although keep in mind the C3 vette didnt have any trunk to begin with so it would probably make looking for a trunk lining abit of a pain in the butt if it was anything seriously custom about it

[jurassic narc]

This is a supplier for many of the best materials.http://www.gahh.com/smp-v20-c09-c.php

[Sonny-Burnett]

Good that it was Connolly leather' date=' although if it wasn't maintained by the previous owner the advantage may be gone. Connolly is a very supple leather produced in England. The carpet in Ferraris of that vintage was in fact velour' date=' so to have that is actually consitent with the real cars.Stayfast canvas is what you want for the top. It is more optional for the tonneau. But the Stayfast will hold out water and weather longer. One of the things to check is when the top is up do you have open areas. I had to do a lot of work to get the area between the top and the door/window area. Ended up replacing the moulding all around the door.[/quote'']Pretty sure it is Connolly though it is weathered on the driver seat, the center console, the driver door panel as well as the threshhold area. I really never had this car detailed as I always thought that I would would find a dash and begin the tearout process rather quickly. Now I think I will go to a high end detail shop that did some work on my Lexus a couple years ago and see if they can get the leather looking much better as well as taking the heavy stains out of the tan carpet. I treat my Lexus WAY better than the previous owner did to this very rare black car. Want to see what this car looks like in a much cleaner state than it is. Not sure if my carpet is the velour you are describing as it is so dirty and matted so maybe a good cleaning will bring this back out. As to the top thanks for that bit of info about STF and yes I have a similar problem with it sealing. There are gaps against the top of the windshield frame and to the windows which allows water in and makes for wind noise on the highway. Needs some work but need someone with some knowledge to tackle it. On the tonneau do you know what Camera's tonneau is made from?

[Sonny-Burnett]

This is a supplier for many of the best materials.http://www.gahh.com/smp-v20-c09-c.php

Thanks!

[Sonny-Burnett]

I think he ment brian with the pre 77 mcburnie interior kit on his' date=' actually that begs the question did they ever make a kit for the 77 - 82 ones as I dont think I've ever actually come across oneSonny do you mean the center stripes where you sit on the seat or the outers that go from top to bottom on car 4 in the front?because I didnt notice any side stripes on your seats from the photos you've posted, actually I dont think I've really seen a close up of them either along with the doorsand with the trunk lining I think I have come across one or two that didnt have any sort of lining awhile back, plus if you dont use the trunk it probably wouldnt matter to that particular person although keep in mind the C3 vette didnt have any trunk to begin with so it would probably make looking for a trunk lining abit of a pain in the butt if it was anything seriously custom about it[/quote']I don't think I have posted nor have I taken any detail seat shots of my car other than what is in my photo album in small form that the previous owner took. Will have to shoot some this weekend.I have only horizontal stripes on the seat back (3 rows) and 4 rows on the seat bottom. The doors also have horizontal stripes. Not sure what you mean by "outers"??The trunk is very small but it is good to have it carpet-lined for some storage. Gives it a more finished look when open as otherwise you see the semi-finished details of a kit body.

[Kavinsky]

I don't think I have posted nor have I taken any detail seat shots of my car other than what is in my photo album in small form that the previous owner took. Will have to shoot some this weekend.I have only horizontal stripes on the seat back (3 rows) and 4 rows on the seat bottom. The doors also have horizontal stripes. Not sure what you mean by "outers"??The trunk is very small but it is good to have it carpet-lined for some storage. Gives it a more finished look when open as otherwise you see the semi-finished details of a kit body.

the side stripes on either side of dons head herehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5980&stc=1&d=1336607750and I think the faded color of the leather can be restored' date=' I remembered seeing it on a bentley in wheel dealers (really must catch up on them as there doing my fathers old car pretty soon the 914) although sadly someones flagged it on youtube and that part is MIA, I think what they did was basically soaked it and painted it with some sort of leather restoraton item as leather is skin and as long as its not teared it can be cleaned and restored, although while doing that I would also just for hygienes sake replace all of the soaked foam underneath it and have the seat frames cleaned and redone as well and also on that soft top anti theft video on lenos website they apparently can make a top out of all things kevlar and its rigged up to the anti theft system that if anyone tries to cut into it it will set off the alarm system[url']http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/extras/car-care/soft-top-theft-deterrent-system/index.shtml

[Sonny-Burnett]

the side stripes on either side of dons head herehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5980&stc=1&d=1336607750

The smallish thin stripes on the headrest? No I don't have that at the headrest. And I don't have the dark vertical stripes running up the center of the seat cushions either.

and I think the faded color of the leather can be restored' date=' I remembered seeing it on a bentley in wheel dealers (really must catch up on them as there doing my fathers old car pretty soon the 914) although sadly someones flagged it on youtube and that part is MIA, I think what they did was basically soaked it and painted it with some sort of leather restoraton item as leather is skin and as long as its not teared it can be cleaned and restored, although while doing that I would also just for hygienes sake replace all of the soaked foam underneath it and have the seat frames cleaned and redone as well [/quote']Now that I realize finding a new dash is not so easy, and how much was spent on high end materials for the interior I am going to see if my seats can be reconditioned and the wear areas redone or improved. If the carpets can be cleaned and the seats restored I will like showing off the interior as today it is not clean and an eyesore to me. Need to do some minor leather repairs where there are some small splits as well.

and also on that soft top anti theft video on lenos website they apparently can make a top out of all things kevlar and its rigged up to the anti theft system that if anyone tries to cut into it it will set off the alarm systemhttp://www.jaylenosgarage.com/extras/car-care/soft-top-theft-deterrent-system/index.shtml

Well I never leave it out of my sight for very long and there is nothing to steal in it anyway. I actually have a disconnected alarm that I might try fixing when I do some electrical work in the interior.

[Kavinsky]

The smallish thin stripes on the headrest? No I don't have that at the headrest. And I don't have the dark vertical stripes running up the center of the seat cushions either. Now that I realize finding a new dash is not so easy' date=' and how much was spent on high end materials for the interior I am going to see if my seats can be reconditioned and the wear areas redone or improved. If the carpets can be cleaned and the seats restored I will like showing off the interior as today it is not clean and an eyesore to me. Need to do some minor leather repairs where there are some small splits as well. Well I never leave it out of my sight for very long and there is nothing to steal in it anyway. I actually have a disconnected alarm that I might try fixing when I do some electrical work in the interior.[/quote']yeah thats what I ment with the stripingFYI it might also not be such a bad idea to make coppies of that dot paper with the materials on it just incase it further degradesand be damn careful with the alarms and the wiring, Cooper and Burnett lost an alfa romeo 2000 to some guy who installed the radio half assed by I think putting in oversized fuses causing the thing to go ablase as the wiring insulations might have worn out ontop of that and wasnt rigged up for that power and it might not be such a bad idea to get the wiring checked out by a trusted electrician, be it a normal one or an auto one just to be sure, licenced as well.granted its not an old italain car or something thrown together like the old crazy miura but still it is 23 years old and was abused and treated like a throw away toy by the former owner.

[jurassic narc]

Pretty sure it is Connolly though it is weathered on the driver seat' date=' the center console' date=' the driver door panel as well as the threshhold area. I really never had this car detailed as I always thought that I would would find a dash and begin the tearout process rather quickly. Now I think I will go to a high end detail shop that did some work on my Lexus a couple years ago and see if they can get the leather looking much better as well as taking the heavy stains out of the tan carpet. I treat my Lexus WAY better than the previous owner did to this very rare black car. Want to see what this car looks like in a much cleaner state than it is. Not sure if my carpet is the velour you are describing as it is so dirty and matted so maybe a good cleaning will bring this back out. As to the top thanks for that bit of info about STF and yes I have a similar problem with it sealing. There are gaps against the top of the windshield frame and to the windows which allows water in and makes for wind noise on the highway. Needs some work but need someone with some knowledge to tackle it. On the tonneau do you know what Camera's tonneau is made from?[/quote'']The tonneau on the camera car is leather over foam backing. I hesitate to say that most are leather, but I think that is the pre-dominate material.I ordered a new set of weatherstrip moulding from Ecklers and replaced it all around the top and the doors and got 99% of the leaks. The last little bit is just the difference between the 1975 Corvette top and frame and the McBurnie body. Remember, the McBurnie soft top can be used as a pattern by a good upholstery shop to replace the soft top. The mechanicals and the weatherstrip is 1975 Vette. The frame around the windshield usually depends on the year model of the donor car.

[jurassic narc]

I don't think I have posted nor have I taken any detail seat shots of my car other than what is in my photo album in small form that the previous owner took. Will have to shoot some this weekend.I have only horizontal stripes on the seat back (3 rows) and 4 rows on the seat bottom. The doors also have horizontal stripes. Not sure what you mean by "outers"??The trunk is very small but it is good to have it carpet-lined for some storage. Gives it a more finished look when open as otherwise you see the semi-finished details of a kit body.

If I were you , I would keep my eye out for a seat of used 1978-1982 Corvette seats with the buckets (frames). When you get both seats, you can have someone cover the outside of the buckets, and refabricate the MV like seats on your timetable. I have been working on a pattern for the seats, but the piping down the sides is a fairly common request for an upholsterer.I ordered a couple of yards of good carpet and covered my own trunk. Just purchase contact cement in a quart bucket. I used the foam paint brushes to lay it on. Use a sharpe razor knife to cut the carpet and fit it before you lay any contact cement. Cover the back of the carpet and the surface of the trunk and let it air dry. Then lay in the carpet (but have some help on hand, because once the contact cement makes contact--it is stuck!)With the materials on hand you can cover the inside of the trunk in an hour or so.

[jurassic narc]

Now that I realize finding a new dash is not so easy' date=' and how much was spent on high end materials for the interior I am going to see if my seats can be reconditioned and the wear areas redone or improved. If the carpets can be cleaned and the seats restored I will like showing off the interior as today it is not clean and an eyesore to me. Need to do some minor leather repairs where there are some small splits as well. Well I never leave it out of my sight for very long and there is nothing to steal in it anyway. I actually have a disconnected alarm that I might try fixing when I do some electrical work in the interior.[/quote']I am with you on the alarm. I do have a kill switch that would prevent somone from just driving the car off, but no alarm.When you get ready to do the interior, I recommend you get with your interior guy and see what they recommend. Some many improvements have been made in the vinyl area that I was recommended to use it where the sun exposure was the most intense. Good interior people can match high end leather and vinyl together to save money and make the car more durable.For sure the dash top should be vinyl, and not expensive leather that will shrink and start to crack in a summer if your not careful.