The Ferrari Daytonas of Miami Vice

[jurassic narc]

god thats weird' date=' disgruntled employee perhaps? I mean you did say that he irked the guy who did the interior back when him and markadian were making the first couple cars.[/quote']I think this was an angry customer, the way the story read. Just one more thing that indicates that a lot less of these cars were completed than we ever thought.

[Kavinsky]

I think this was an angry customer' date=' the way the story read. Just one more thing that indicates that a lot less of these cars were completed than we ever thought.[/quote']Indeed and even if rowley did outlive the lawsuit thats probably only an extra 20 or 30 onto of that total of probably a 150 if not less made total.

[jurassic narc]

Indeed and even if rowley did outlive the lawsuit thats probably only an extra 20 or 30 onto of that total of probably a 150 if not less made total.

Just ran across an article from January 31, 1987, talking about the lawsuit by Ferrari. McBurnie is quoted as saying that he built only 48 turn-key cars and sold about 150 kits total. So less than 200 cars (assuming all were built--which we know to be untrue).

[Sonny-Burnett]

TPI engine? not sure what that means as I'm not that much of a C4/ fuel injection person' date=' although it should be interesting to see how exactly the car was set up for someone who was 6 foot and how the dash was rigged up as theres gotta be some other cars out there that used that dash mold other than car 4although that red one that I came across used the mcburnie dash like on Brians except with the 78 binacle inplace of the two primary gauges of his 71.[/quote']I'm not familiar with that engine either or its HP output. Is this another name for the 350 small block?I'm not sure what special setup would be needed as I am 6 feet tall as well and I fit in the standard seat configuration with the seat all the way back. "78 binacle" ?

[Sonny-Burnett]

Just ran across an article from January 31' date=' 1987, talking about the lawsuit by Ferrari. McBurnie is quoted as saying that he built only 48 turn-key cars and sold about 150 kits total. So less than 200 cars (assuming all were built--which we know to be untrue).[/quote']Can you post a link to that article pls?

[CameraDaytona]

I'm not familiar with that engine either or its HP output. Is this another name for the 350 small block?I'm not sure what special setup would be needed as I am 6 feet tall as well and I fit in the standard seat configuration with the seat all the way back. "78 binacle" ?

TPI means "Tuned Port Injection" - The Corvette had mechanical fuel injection available from 1957 to 1965. It was then dropped in favor of the big block, which first appeared in 1965. In 1982, Chevrolet again offered fuel injection - this time eledtronic FI, specifically twin throttle body injection or "crossfire" as it was called. It worked (and looked) like a carburetor in which the fuel was injected directly into the air stream as it went through the throttle body (carburetor look alike). This was carried over into the C-4 in 1984, but in 1985 "Tuned Port Injection" replaced the "crossfire" injection. Tuned port injection (or TPI) is basically the system used today where the fuel is injected above each cylinder.The stock 1987 Corvette had 240 hp and 345 pound-feet of torque. I owned a 1985 Corvette in 1985 with the TPI engine and the 4+2 transmission. It was fun to drive, but was no where like today's 400 plus hp cars.I am 6 ft 2 in and I have no problem fitting in the Camera Car - with the top up or down.

[Kavinsky]

I'm not familiar with that engine either or its HP output. Is this another name for the 350 small block?I'm not sure what special setup would be needed as I am 6 feet tall as well and I fit in the standard seat configuration with the seat all the way back. "78 binacle" ?

78 binacle as in the insturment cluster for the tach and speedo' date=' which was made into one square unit with both insturments in it unlike the 76's and the 77's where the speedo and tach were separate circular units like on Brians car. and the vice car has this setup and its been used on alot of GM cars since then, atleast until 1999 with the case of my fathers old oldsmobile intrigue[img']http://www.miamiviceonline.com/photoplog/images/61/large/1_MV-Interior_etc_027-reduced.JPGand well with the mcburnie dash setup used on brians car and this one up I cant help but feel it looks claustrophobic vs the 78 one used as the basis of car 4 and well I'm not sure how far apart the pedals would have to be set for a manual trans with a car like that for someone whos 6 foot or taller, with an auto however it probably wouldnt matter as long as the seat fits you http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6117&stc=1&d=1338102765and I think the thing that makes it look more clastrophobic to me is how wide the mcburnie center console looks as it looks like it doubles in width around the pedals, this ones from the latest ebay offering I found by the way from the one guy who I think was kind of sketchy history wise, a nice looking ride though.and its either the width or how much leather there is around the bottom by the front of the seats that makes it look wider and thus tighter or both to me, it just doesnt look comfortabile from the photo unlike the vice car, could just be from the leather of the center console going all the way down to the floor where as it stops midway up on the vice car and is carpet from the middle down but I dont know something just looks off about the mcburnie dash kit to me in totalwith the vice car however I think the dash is beautiful, its my favorite part of the car and the whole thing looks quite comfortabile.and yeah thats kind of funny about modern cars, nowadays while there heavier and thus arent quite as nimble as the old ones the new modern engines using the horsepower gross figure (if Im getting that right) as installed instead of exagerated like with the pre 72 era are as powerful as the exagerated figures of the ones from the 60's all while gettting better gas mileagehell the V6 used in the new camaro with 300 hp is getting damn near the amount of horsepower the 427 and the 454's probably truely produced, dont quite know about the torque though as thats where the big blocks shined and supposedly with a 74 454 you could blow the doors off of the old ZR1 from the 90's in atleast the acceleration department as I think that one was designed to be very long legged to compete with the 512 TR and the NSX in the top speed department.

[jurassic narc]

I think this was an angry customer' date=' the way the story read. Just one more thing that indicates that a lot less of these cars were completed than we ever thought.[/quote']Finally found the details;"In April 1989, Schwartz went to McBurnie Coachcraft to complain about the work being done on his car chassis. Schwartz was angry because the work had not been completed. McBurnie offered to give Schwartz his money back, but Schwartz refused to calm down. Schwartz told McBurnie he would get even.Three days later, on April 27, at 7:10 a.m. Schwartz returned to McBurnie Coachcraft, dressed in dark clothing, sunglasses, a black baseball cap and a bandanna over his face. He had a gun. Upon entering the premises he ordered the employees to lie down on the floor. To ensure compliance Schwartz cocked his gun. Employees Larry Gabel, Walter Shepard, Steven Whitbeck, Kevin Burnett and Patrick Butters, recognized Schwartz's voice. Schwartz told them nobody would be hurt if they cooperated.Schwartz removed cans of gasoline from a bag and began pouring it on car frames and other parts of the garage. He lit a piece of paper, threw it on the ground and left the building.In the ensuing blaze several cars were damaged. Damage on two of the cars exceeded $25,000. The fire also damaged the building after a flame from a vehicle burned the ceiling of the structure, damaging the loft and roof. The total loss was approximately $116,850."

[Kavinsky]

Finally found the details;"In April 1989' date=' Schwartz went to McBurnie Coachcraft to complain about the work being done on his car chassis. Schwartz was angry because the work had not been completed. McBurnie offered to give Schwartz his money back, but Schwartz refused to calm down. Schwartz told McBurnie he would get even.Three days later, on April 27, at 7:10 a.m. Schwartz returned to McBurnie Coachcraft, dressed in dark clothing, sunglasses, a black baseball cap and a bandanna over his face. He had a gun. Upon entering the premises he ordered the employees to lie down on the floor. To ensure compliance Schwartz cocked his gun. Employees Larry Gabel, Walter Shepard, Steven Whitbeck, Kevin Burnett and Patrick Butters, recognized Schwartz's voice. Schwartz told them nobody would be hurt if they cooperated.Schwartz removed cans of gasoline from a bag and began pouring it on car frames and other parts of the garage. He lit a piece of paper, threw it on the ground and left the building.In the ensuing blaze several cars were damaged. Damage on two of the cars exceeded $25,000. The fire also damaged the building after a flame from a vehicle burned the ceiling of the structure, damaging the loft and roof. The total loss was approximately $116,850."[/quote']yeash I wonder what the promised delivery date of the thing was? I mean Sonny said his and the others took 6 months.

[CameraDaytona]

In the ensuing blaze several cars were damaged. Damage on two of the cars exceeded $25' date='000. The fire also damaged the building after a flame from a vehicle burned the ceiling of the structure, damaging the loft and roof. The total loss was approximately $116,850."[/quote']I assume it didn't mention if the office was burned. It doesn't sound like this fire should have destroyed the records. When I visited McBurnie in the 90's, he didn't mention anything about the records being destroyed. And he showed me the picture album of the original real Daytona totally disassembled so that the molds could be made from it. (This white Daytona convertible was a customer's car that Mardikian had in his shop to do some repairs on. I believe it was the same one that McBurnie had seen when he went to see Mardikian about buiding a Cobra replica. Mardikian thought the Cobra estimate to build a replica was too high, so Tom suggested they build a Daytona replica. Mardikian said, "give me an estimate" - and the rest is history.)

[Kavinsky]

I assume it didn't mention if the office was burned. It doesn't sound like this fire should have destroyed the records. When I visited McBurnie in the 90's' date=' he didn't mention anything about the records being destroyed. And he showed me the picture album of the original real Daytona totally disassembled so that the molds could be made from it. (This white Daytona convertible was a customer's car that Mardikian had in his shop to do some repairs on. I believe it was the same one that McBurnie had seen when he went to see Mardikian about buiding a Cobra replica. Mardikian thought the Cobra estimate to build a replica was too high, so Tom suggested they build a Daytona replica. Mardikian said, "give me an estimate" - and the rest is history.)[/quote']Not a white spyder with red accents on the sides and a red interior by any chance? as I seem to remember coming across one just like that for sale on finecars.cc that had quite an interesting history to it to begin with if its the same car and yeah from what I understand superformance, the ones who make the very accurate GT40 replicas in south africa use the mustang 5.0 chasis to create there cobra replicas and I dont think those came out till the middle 80's so they probably wouldnt have had a good base to start with back then if they had gone the cobra way instead.not quite sure what they use as the basis of the GT40's though.

[jurassic narc]

I assume it didn't mention if the office was burned. It doesn't sound like this fire should have destroyed the records. When I visited McBurnie in the 90's' date=' he didn't mention anything about the records being destroyed. And he showed me the picture album of the original real Daytona totally disassembled so that the molds could be made from it. (This white Daytona convertible was a customer's car that Mardikian had in his shop to do some repairs on. I believe it was the same one that McBurnie had seen when he went to see Mardikian about buiding a Cobra replica. Mardikian thought the Cobra estimate to build a replica was too high, so Tom suggested they build a Daytona replica. Mardikian said, "give me an estimate" - and the rest is history.)[/quote']You know, I read somewhere that all McBurnie's records were destroyed in the fire, but I do remember you saying you saw the album. The story about the missing records may have been for the purposes of the federal trial with Ferrari. Even though the trial was over, I think McBurnie had planned to appeal at one time. It sure would be nice to get a look at some of his records and notes.

[Kavinsky]

You know' date=' I read somewhere that all McBurnie's records were destroyed in the fire, but I do remember you saying you saw the album. The story about the missing records may have been for the purposes of the federal trial with Ferrari. Even though the trial was over, I think McBurnie had planned to appeal at one time. It sure would be nice to get a look at some of his records and notes.[/quote']this is the one I was talking about by the way, cant seem to find the ad for it but I remember reading it had abit of an odd history and was well docutmented but didnt sell on account of its color combination I guessthe owner apparently raced Steve Mcqueen with it in his porsche powered dune buggy and met with Bill Cosby (the owner of one of the geniune shelby cobra supersnakes back then who sold it to some poor sod who promptly wrecked it afterwards) who was curious about the car according to the ad and had been in a couples ownership since new, its the only one with the red accents on the side made apparently with a matching dark red interior.and I double checked my facts there I got it wrong the C4 ZR1 had the LT5 engine designed by lotus with double overhead cams and made by the guys who did the engines of crockett's boats, mercury cruisers I thinkthe LT1 was the one in the stock 1990's C4 vettes and used in the 1996 chevy impala SS with a 300 hp motor which would fit as I think the big blocks like the 454 produced about 330 HP hence why it was able to blow its doors off.also I've never quite seen daytona replicas like this before:http://streetvizions.com/White_Ferrari.htmlhttp://streetvizions.com/Weaver_Ferrari.htmland it looks like the blue one might have a slightly chopped windshield, like its an inch or so lower unless thats just another optical illusion im picking up on.

[jurassic narc]

http://images58.fotki.com/v279/photos/9/95430/4824881/FerrariSpyderFullRTside-vi.jpgthe owner apparently raced Steve Mcqueen with it in his porsche powered dune buggy and met with Bill Cosby (the owner of one of the geniune shelby cobra supersnakes back then who sold it to some poor sod who promptly wrecked it afterwards) who was curious about the car according to the ad and had been in a couples ownership since new, its the only one with the red accents on the side made apparently with a matching dark red interior.and I double checked my facts there I got it wrong the C4 ZR1 had the LT5 engine designed by lotus with double overhead cams and made by the guys who did the engines of crockett's boats, mercury cruisers I thinkthe LT1 was the one in the stock 1990's C4 vettes and used in the 1996 chevy impala SS with a 300 hp motor which would fit as I think the big blocks like the 454 produced about 330 HP hence why it was able to blow its doors off.also I've never quite seen daytona replicas like this before:http://streetvizions.com/White_Ferrari.htmlhttp://streetvizions.com/Weaver_Ferrari.htmland it looks like the blue one might have a slightly chopped windshield, like its an inch or so lower unless thats just another optical illusion im picking up on.

These are both Roberts bodies. I have spoken to the guy who owns the White Ferrari. He was told by Carl that this car had the body of Car #1, but there are subtle clues that this is not a McBurnie body (not even the first one). He does appear to have a McBurnie grill that has been chromed though!Not sure about the windshield, as to shorten it would cause changes in the top and the side windows too. But with limited pictures it is too tough to tell.

[jurassic narc]

http://images58.fotki.com/v279/photos/9/95430/4824881/FerrariSpyderFullRTside-vi.jpgthe owner apparently raced Steve Mcqueen with it in his porsche powered dune buggy and met with Bill Cosby (the owner of one of the geniune shelby cobra supersnakes back then who sold it to some poor sod who promptly wrecked it afterwards) who was curious about the car according to the ad and had been in a couples ownership since new, its the only one with the red accents on the side made apparently with a matching dark red interior.and I double checked my facts there I got it wrong the C4 ZR1 had the LT5 engine designed by lotus with double overhead cams and made by the guys who did the engines of crockett's boats, mercury cruisers I thinkthe LT1 was the one in the stock 1990's C4 vettes and used in the 1996 chevy impala SS with a 300 hp motor which would fit as I think the big blocks like the 454 produced about 330 HP hence why it was able to blow its doors off.also I've never quite seen daytona replicas like this before:http://streetvizions.com/White_Ferrari.htmlhttp://streetvizions.com/Weaver_Ferrari.htmland it looks like the blue one might have a slightly chopped windshield, like its an inch or so lower unless thats just another optical illusion im picking up on.

As to the real white Daytona, I think (not 100%) this car was owned by the owner of Harrahs Casino and is not the car used by McBurnie. I have seen this car for sale and the serial number is different. The serial number we are looking for is 16859. I run it occasionally, but you have a knack for digging things up.

[Kavinsky]

These are both Roberts bodies. I have spoken to the guy who owns the White Ferrari. He was told by Carl that this car had the body of Car #1' date=' but there are subtle clues that this is not a McBurnie body (not even the first one). He does appear to have a McBurnie grill that has been chromed though!Not sure about the windshield, as to shorten it would cause changes in the top and the side windows too. But with limited pictures it is too tough to tell.[/quote']yeah with the windshield I was thinking of the blue one there (and man that things got a nice looking paint job on it) as it looked lower but I think the white ferrari is probably either using a C4 windshield or it was rigged up with a custom carl roberts trim piece without any spot left for the sunvisors. as the black fiberglass that covers up the chrome strip covers the entirety of the windshield top and the sides which it doesnt seem to do on the typical units unless theres an insert to cover that up that comes along with them that I dont know aboutVs a C4 based replica where honestly I think outside of the windshield the thing just aint that pretty looking and with that windshield it seems much lower yet seems to be sitting higher up on the starting part of the body http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6132&stc=1&d=1338348240http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6131&stc=1&d=1338348238as typically with the C3 replicas the windshield is more sunk in looking while on that one it looks like its sitting ontop of the body http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6130&stc=1&d=1338348228plus it seems narower at the top, you probably could get away with using the C4 top mixed with the mcburnie body with probably a minor leak around the side windows.

As to the real white Daytona' date=' I think (not 100%) this car was owned by the owner of Harrahs Casino and is not the car used by McBurnie. I have seen this car for sale and the serial number is different. The serial number we are looking for is 16859. I run it occasionally, but you have a knack for digging things up.[/quote']hmm I could ask on ferrari chat to see who might have it

[Youngman]

some pictures of my McBurnieAgain I am not an expert I just repeated what I was told, and the original owner was 82 years old so he may be cloudy on some details.

[Kavinsky]

Again I am not an expert I just repeated what I was told' date=' and the original owner was 82 years old so he may be cloudy on some details.[/quote']looks abit like Sonny Burnetts old steering wheel in the interior there along with the door panels plus its got the S1 style mounting of the plexyglass, wonder if the same guy did both of your cars as they seem to be similarly rigged up save for the tires, tail pipes being rigged up in the pilot position except mounted upwards like it was past the pilot and the pop down headlights of his.actually looking at the steering wheel there maybe the one in Sonny burnetts and yours originally is what car 4 had from the getgo instead with leather around the edges instead of wood.and thats the vice car pre vice there with the markadian markings on the back probably post completetion back in 81 or 82.

[Youngman]

enginepicture of engine

[CameraDaytona]

As to the real white Daytona' date=' I think (not 100%) this car was owned by the owner of Harrahs Casino and is not the car used by McBurnie. I have seen this car for sale and the serial number is different. The serial number we are looking for is 16859. I run it occasionally, but you have a knack for digging things up.[/quote']When I saw the picture album (of the car from which McBurnie made the molds), the car was totally dis-assembled and the pictures were mainly of the individual pieces - fenders, doors, etc. I do not remember any red trim, and I don't remember the color of the interior. Tom did say that it was a customer's car and that he doubted that the customer knew he had it or that it was dis-assembled.Why do you think it was the car owned by the owner of Harrah's? It does not seem that his car would be in LA at Mardikian's??? I would not think that there were that many original Daytona convertibles in white - it would not seem to be a popular color.

[CameraDaytona]

picture of engine

Your car looks very nice. Is it built on a C3 (68 to 82) or C4 (84 to 96) chassis? The engine has a later model (C4) fuel injection system. I know cars were built on both. The C4 chassis should be an improvement over the C3 in both ride quality and handling.

[Youngman]

CHASSISIt has to be a C3 I think the frame is a 1981BobAren't the C4 based ones much wider?

[CameraDaytona]

It has to be a C3 I think the frame is a 1981Bob

If the frame is a 1981, it is a C3 chassis. I think most of the replica Daytonas are built on a C3 chassis, but some of those built in the late 80s and 90s were built on C4 chassis. I don't know if the body would require modification to fit a C4 chassis or not. A lot of the "resto-mod" Corvettes are built with a C2 or C3 chassis but suspension components from a C4 are used.

[jurassic narc]

When I saw the picture album (of the car from which McBurnie made the molds)' date=' the car was totally dis-assembled and the pictures were mainly of the individual pieces - fenders, doors, etc. I do not remember any red trim, and I don't remember the color of the interior. Tom did say that it was a customer's car and that he doubted that the customer knew he had it or that it was dis-assembled.Why do you think it was the car owned by the owner of Harrah's? It does not seem that his car would be in LA at Mardikian's??? I would not think that there were that many original Daytona convertibles in white - it would not seem to be a popular color.[/quote']No, I meant the car with the red stripe was from Vegas. The Daytona McBurnie used was all white as I understood it.

[Kavinsky]

When I saw the picture album (of the car from which McBurnie made the molds)' date=' the car was totally dis-assembled and the pictures were mainly of the individual pieces - fenders, doors, etc. I do not remember any red trim, and I don't remember the color of the interior. Tom did say that it was a customer's car and that he doubted that the customer knew he had it or that it was dis-assembled.Why do you think it was the car owned by the owner of Harrah's? It does not seem that his car would be in LA at Mardikian's??? I would not think that there were that many original Daytona convertibles in white - it would not seem to be a popular color.[/quote']I seem to remember it belonging to someone along the lines of that stature and I believe the car was in canada when that shot of it in the garage was taken as I think the porsche next to it had a canadian licence plate on it.not quite sure if the car was there though around that time period, its a little hazy but as you said white daytonas are hard to come by so I kind of thought maybe it was this oneand heres the finecars.cc ad for the car, they removed the red stripe on the sides but forgot to update the close up photos of it with that red trim around the trunk of the car, and as you can see it was white with red stripe and a black and red interior:http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/89522/index.html?no_cache=1&ret=251one thing though could it have been cream colored and not straight white with a matching interior as one just like that showed up on that same website awhile back and it had certainly been around the block a few times.and it was in the calfornia area along with the black one sold by the same guys who did the ad for this black one here:http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/14122/index.html?no_cache=1&ret=63

It has to be a C3 I think the frame is a 1981BobAren't the C4 based ones much wider?

actually there are a few companies that can retrofit the C3 body to the C4 chasis without changing the look of the body as the cars were all an evolution and the C3 chasis was just a modification of the C2 chasis to fit the C3 shark body and it probably applies to the C3 to C4 as well.and the same applies to the engine too probably, could just take the the body of a C3 and its running gear and attach it to the C4 chasis if one wishes to do so.I mean thats probably one of the reasons why the vette was able to live on while the other cars of the 1960's and 1970's era died off, the parts of the latter C4 up to 1996 probably would work on cars made as early as 1968 if you had the money and the knowhow to rig it up