Calling all Detectives: Group effort

[CarolineUK]

9:5 that Vanessa´s house has also been massively remodelled and thus will be hard to find.

I mentioned back in post 262 about Vanessa's location that was put into CGlide's recap on this case (CC10), I asked for clarification on the following: when Tubbs is at Vanessa's boutique & he is trying to get a date with her, she says to him "Come to my place for lunch" then the next time you see them with Sonny and McCarthy they are getting up from a dining table. Sonny & McCarthy go outside where they discuss business. The view from this house looks like the mangroves growing to the water. Am I right in thinking this scene takes place at her house and not McCarthy's?If the mangrove scene was at Vanessa's then she must have lived on a spit of land with a water-following street at the front and mangroves at the back (or at the side of the property).

[CarolineUK]

I mentioned back in post 262 about Vanessa's location that was put into CGlide's recap on this case (CC10)' date=' I asked for clarification on the following: when Tubbs is at Vanessa's boutique & he is trying to get a date with her, she says to him "Come to my place for lunch" then the next time you see them with Sonny and McCarthy they are getting up from a dining table. Sonny & McCarthy go outside where they discuss business. The view from this house looks like the mangroves growing to the water. Am I right in thinking this scene takes place at her house and not McCarthy's?If the mangrove scene was at Vanessa's then she must have lived on a spit of land with a water-following street at the front and mangroves at the back (or at the side of the property).[/quote']Ok, now I'm more confused. McCarthy's house is 485 Matheson Drive; CGlide on his site says that the lunch scenes (which Vanessa states were going to be at her place) are filmed at 28 Harbor Point Drive so who's house is this supposed to be - Vanessa's? Therefore did they use another location for the front of the property as it was too difficult to film in the cul-de-sac where that house is located?

[Pink Flaming0]

Ok' date=' now I'm more confused. McCarthy's house is 485 Matheson Drive; CGlide on his site says that the lunch scenes (which Vanessa states were going to be at her place) are filmed at 28 Harbor Point Drive so who's house is this supposed to be - Vanessa's? Therefore did they use another location for the front of the property as it was too difficult to film in the cul-de-sac where that house is located?[/quote']I was confused by this too, Sue but later figured it out (with help from Jeremy, lol) McCarthy's house is 28 Harbor Point Drive.

[CarolineUK]

I was confused by this too' date=' Sue but later figured it out (with help from Jeremy, lol) McCarthy's house is 28 Harbor Point Drive.[/quote']Thanks for that, Pink! The address is incorrect then on this site's glossary. After I did the last post re my confusion, I had a look around Key Biscayne on aerial photos and google maps. I've been looking where a road with houses on one side would have water on the other side to try and find possible areas for its location. Most of KB doesn't have roads like that, even back in the 1980s. There's a crossing onto Mashta island; a causeway at Mashta point (but can't see houses on there for the 80s so think that is a no-no), close to the open space just south of the McCarthy house there used to be a house there which has now gone - I'm not sure how much vegetation there was opposite the disappeared house by the water's edge; lastly there are houses on Harbor Drive close to the Key Biscayne yacht club where you can see the water though it's not as close as the screen caps. There doesn't seem to be a true waterside road at all on KB or have they filmed it at an angle that the water looks closer than it is?

[Pink Flaming0]

Thanks for that' date=' Pink! The address is incorrect then on this site's glossary. After I did the last post re my confusion, I had a look around Key Biscayne on aerial photos and google maps. I've been looking where a road with houses on one side would have water on the other side to try and find possible areas for its location. Most of KB doesn't have roads like that, even back in the 1980s. There's a crossing onto Mashta island; a causeway at Mashta point (but can't see houses on there for the 80s so think that is a no-no), close to the open space just south of the McCarthy house there used to be a house there which has now gone - I'm not sure how much vegetation there was opposite the disappeared house by the water's edge; lastly there are houses on Harbor Drive close to the Key Biscayne yacht club where you can see the water though it's not as close as the screen caps. There doesn't seem to be a true waterside road at all on KB or have they filmed it at an angle that the water looks closer than it is?[/quote']Sue I thought the very same thing as you, KB location doesn't seem to fit for finding Vanessa's house. Tom also mentioned he felt the causeway in the background of one of the screen caps would be the major hang up. IF in fact that is a causeway and a house or house boat in the background I feel Vanessa's house is located somewhere close to one of the causeways. Another thing to consider is the angle of the camera location when shooting this scene, if you look from the causeway back towards Vanessa's front door/driveway, not many places fit the location. I also wonder if this wasn't a house but maybe a townhouse or condo.. just a thought. One last bit of info. When Tubbs comes down the stairs inside the house, the stairs are a spiral staircase with a half round wall made to fit for the staircase, this wall should be an out barring wall, noticeable from the front of the house. The driveway looks to be wide enough for 2 cars, which makes you think there is a 2 car garage with this home. This is going to be difficult to find , it was filmed at night and the darkness hides so many clues.

[CarolineUK]

Sue I thought the very same thing as you' date=' KB location doesn't seem to fit for finding Vanessa's house. Tom also mentioned he felt the causeway in the background of one of the screen caps would be the major hang up. IF in fact that is a causeway and a house or house boat in the background I feel Vanessa's house is located somewhere close to one of the causeways. Another thing to consider is the angle of the camera location when shooting this scene, if you look from the causeway back towards Vanessa's front door/driveway, not many places fit the location. I also wonder if this wasn't a house but maybe a townhouse or condo.. just a thought. One last bit of info. When Tubbs comes down the stairs inside the house, the stairs are a spiral staircase with a half round wall made to fit for the staircase, this wall should be an out barring wall, noticeable from the front of the house. The driveway looks to be wide enough for 2 cars, which makes you think there is a 2 car garage with this home. This is going to be difficult to find , it was filmed at night and the darkness hides so many clues. [/quote']Maybe they filmed it at night for precisely that reason - to hide the location as the surroundings may not have fit the episode? Even back in the 80s, the aerial views don't show many possible spots for the watery roadside and then when you discount the wrong driveways etc, there doesn't seem to be a match. But would they have bothered to move the whole crew away from KB for one scene?Below is the area just south of the McCarthy house where the house was demolished after 1986. Might they have shot the scene with the car on the helipad as though it was a road? I haven't looked at the screen caps from the ep today as I'm just off to work so I might be very wrong but at least it can one to be discounted. Number 1 is the demolished house, number 2 is the McCarthy house[ATTACH=CONFIG]6358[/ATTACH]

[C Glide]

6358[/ATTACH]

Interesting idea but I have a few issues with 1 Harbor Point Dr. With the rebuild they may have and in this case likely did totally redo the driveway with different stones but in the 1980 aerial the shape is not a match. Also this is a very flat piece of property and the one we are looking for is raised as you approach the house. This is a feature you would expect to find on KB but this house does not have the incline we see on Vice.

[CarolineUK]

Interesting idea but I have a few issues with 1 Harbor Point Dr. With the rebuild they may have and in this case likely did totally redo the driveway with different stones but in the 1980 aerial the shape is not a match. Also this is a very flat piece of property and the one we are looking for is raised as you approach the house. This is a feature you would expect to find on KB but this house does not have the incline we see on Vice.

Oh well, at least it has been dismissed from our search. We're fortunate having access to an aerial site & the 1986 version is very clear but still it shows that at that time most of Key Biscayne had houses up to the shoreline and that the roads seldom went close to the shore. I've been looking at Mashta Point but there were no homes on it in the 80s; with the area close to it - although there were some plots without buildings so a view of water would be possible from a road, the waterline wasn't close enough. The eastern side of the key has beaches so the road is too far from buildings. I've also had a look at No Name Bay and the northern KB Tony Rome area but nothing seems to help. I suppose as the driveway was an expensive one, it would be in a richer residential area rather than on the peripheral of the key? Finally, would we throw out the idea of Vanessa's driveway being close to a waterline up near the studios?

[C Glide]

I am putting the dvd in now to take another look see.

[C Glide]

I am putting the dvd in now to take another look see.

I spent a good bit of time on this today focused on Key Biscayne and a little on the Sunset islands. I failed to find anything. Had one prospect that got me a little excited but after further investigation I had to rule it out.

[Crockettt]

I spent a good bit of time on this today focused on Key Biscayne and a little on the Sunset islands. I failed to find anything. Had one prospect that got me a little excited but after further investigation I had to rule it out.

Jeremy what's about a pet shop from "Made For Each Other"? Do you have any clue ?

[C Glide]

Jeremy what's about a pet shop from "Made For Each Other"? Do you have any clue ?

I have not gotten back to that yet but I suspect it was in the area of the Ramrod.

[CarolineUK]

I spent a good bit of time on this today focused on Key Biscayne and a little on the Sunset islands. I failed to find anything. Had one prospect that got me a little excited but after further investigation I had to rule it out.[/SIZE">

I've spent hours over the past few days looking at every street close to water on KB' date=' going between historic aerials and current aerial/birds eye view/streetviews without seeing anything that looks promising. I put the house south of McCarthys into the mix in case it was under our nose like the Ramrod and the nearby apartment block.Here's another: there's a large space in the 1986 aerial view on the west end of Cape florida Drive (around No. 260). There is now a very large house in the south but the road paving looks older than the building and the pattern is swirls, like that at Vanessa's. There were houses built between 1980 and 1986 and one of the original ones has been demolished and the land is unused. Might they have reused the paving from the earlier house? I'll post the aerial shots as it could have looked like the road was closer to water before it became built-up:1980 view[ATTACH=CONFIG']6374[/ATTACH]1986 view:[ATTACH=CONFIG]6375[/ATTACH]

[C Glide]

http://www.leamingtonhotel.com/It might be a long shot but it's worth a try. I'm having probs with my screen caps on this new laptop but this was taken of NE2nd Street/NE 3rd Avenue looking south:#68Pros: The building on the right does have an overhang of the correct size. Con: most everything else does not match but lets assume it is possible it had a major, major reconstruction other than the overhang.Pro: The first building on the left really looks good, especially ground floor. Cons: Wrong number of windows on what I will call the second floor, the wide band above the ground floor. For example the last set of windows should have 5 verticle rows. The windows above that totally do not match but that could easily be because of a face lift.The parking garage next door could be new, buillt where there was a surface lot during Vice.One of the best things going for this location is the third building on the left (second in Vice days) is the right size + shape.One of the biggest cons is address is wrong. Address is 197 3rd Ave. for our spot. Even if back then it had a 2nd Street number it would have been high 200s like 29*.Overall I think it bears closer examination. It is worthwhile to try to find older pictures of this address. If we can do that we will have an answer. Great work again!#71I've gone back onto my old laptop as it's easier to edit pics on here. Here's the screencap from google maps streetview that I tried to post yesterday of the Leamington Hotel:I have just zoomed into the second Vice screencap and where the building ends on the lefthandside of the street at what seems like the corner of an intersecting street, there is a building further down but facing the camera. If you look at my streetview, there is that building which has the partial sign "Business Review".These are enlargements of the postcards on the Leamington site#72The hotel is certainly in the right place aand looks right. It is definitely one of the stronger remaining points to say yes this is the place . You may have something here but I am just not seeing the building at the end of the street that you are. I can tell there is a high rise down the street but I am not making out any details like a lower structure.I will break out the DVD later today and see what I can come up with#73Here to add:5)Stairs leading up to a door, adjacent to a clay shingled roof.6)Overhang protrudes from the wall, but does not wrap around, so there must be two separate overhangs.7)window cover looks to be 8ft with a door next to it to enter the shop. Yellow sign above - second word is 'entrance.'Closest looking building I could find to match the one across the street is the Alfred I DuPont Building on 100 something E Flagler ST. That coincidentally would put the scene at around the 200 block. It is however too different still for me to say that that's the building. The large lower portion square shapes are similar to the building I post, but not the same. That's a feature I've focused on finding.This is what My mind has built as a shape of the scene's focus' building corner... Very New York. As a side note, you don't see clay tile downtown, but you see it everywhere in the Miami Beach area, same goes for staircases into buildings. There are a lot of similar looking buildings over there, but I couldn't find one that matches or has tall building across the street. Also, it's in a completely different area than the other street scenes from Florence Italy.Question now, is it possible that the corner Switek is standing on is that of an alley way? I kinda doubt the curb would curve around like that there, but I don't know. What worries me is that the building across the street may be demolished and the building in focus may be altered or demolished also.#76Great work. I am not 100% sure the overhang does not wrap around. I will take another look noting that there is a security cover that goes over the window when the business is closed. In our picks the business is open so the cover is elevated and attached to the overhang and could be confused with the overhang.#851. RE: Cold case 3; Here are two more captures that I modified. Maybe they will help.#89I spent a couple hours touring the higher addresses of 7th and 8th street and I think that is the area we will find CC1. CC3 may be nearby. There a combo of crappy overhangs, clay tile, and stairs. I'll keep looking though, haven't spotted anything exact yet.#90Now I see something I didn't before. The street we're looking down here is the one way. I thought it was the intersecting street that was one way. I clearly see the truck parked on the right side of the road is facing us. That may be a useful clue. Thanks for the new and brighter image, you must have just grabbed those ones, they're different.Also the square shapes on the building across the street look almost like a continuous pattern and may wrap around the entire building. WHen I look up at the top if the building where it meets the overhang, I see a dark strip just before. that makes me think we're seeing the top edge of the outside wall. Is it possible that the building is only that tall? The large square windows(?) then three levels of small windows? The three red lights in the background are really confusing. Could they be a part of the rail system? Also, with all the light the building further down the block from the big one across the street looks little. As if the dark portion at street level is the entire building. I previously though that it just had a darker lower portion, and lighter above. I'll have to keep that possibility in mind.Is the guy standing against the corner in the night shots the same guy as the one reading the paper in the day shots? Looks like the same hat even.#91I also see about what is probably 60% of the way down the street, on the right, another overhang that I get the impression is shorter like a marquis on a theater or hotel entrance.As far as the red lights go, they bother me. I had not thought of the metro-rail. could be. I think that a construction crane is the most likely but by no means an absolute.#92Taking another look at the building down on the left. The dark areas are bigger than two garage doors. It looks like a facade on the building and there appears to be a white support column right on the corner of the building between the two dark sections.I will continue the summary in the next post.

Cold Case 3: The first two cold cases have been solved and now I am happy to say the first 3 cold Cases have been solved. I was just watching By Hooker By Crook as I was working on that episode for my location site. I noticed as we go to Izzy's place the second time that at the far left side of the screen we see a stircase leading up from the street with a unique railing that I recognized the design of. I checked and sure enough. The railing, wall decorations, and stairs are a match for our Biscayne General. 202 Biscayne Blvd. The side street, NE 2nd Street is identifiable;Case solved!

[Beach_Vice]

Wow, incredible find! I can't see anything that is unchanged there. Is anything the same? Nice spotting similarities at the outer edges of the screen in totally different seasons! That's a feat.

[Crockettt]

The side street" data-date=" NE 2nd Street is identifiable;[IMG">

http://www.sffl.comcastbiz.net/wpimages/wp294fed6f.pngCase solved!

Awesome! This location was also used in "Nobody Lives Forever" while Sonny & Rico walk down the street just after when they grabbed Izzy

[miamijimf]

Incredible work everyone. :thumbsup: Just got back from my annual trip to the Appalachian Trail. I missed a lot.

[C Glide]

Incredible work everyone. :thumbsup: Just got back from my annual trip to the Appalachian Trail. I missed a lot.

Welcome back, sounds like an awesome trip.

[Matt5]

Fantastic find !

[Pink Flaming0]

Incredible work everyone. :thumbsup: Just got back from my annual trip to the Appalachian Trail. I missed a lot.

Welcome back, Jim!

[miamijimf]

Welcome back' date=' Jim! [/quote']Thanks Charlie and Pink, I had a good time but am getting a little old for hiking up mountains. What location is everyone concentrating on? I'm now convinced they can all be found, even Hackman's hideout.

[C Glide]

Thanks Charlie and Pink' date=' I had a good time but am getting a little old for hiking up mountains. What location is everyone concentrating on? I'm now convinced they can all be found, even Hackman's hideout.[/quote']"If we search for it, it will be found."I will put together some screen captures tomorrow and we can make that our next cold case.

[CarolineUK]

"If we search for it' date=' it will be found."I will put together some screen captures tomorrow and we can make that our next cold case.[/color']

Looking forward to the challenge. This group really has been on a roll in recent times

[C Glide]

Cold Case 15: Here it is. I think miamijimf has suggested good case to solve so here is our new cold case: The fire station where Hackman is hiding in episode 89 Deliver Us From Evil. I know this has been looked at before and failed to be found in the previous attempt, I believe at .org but I believe this group, with our technology, resources and brain power can absolutely find this fire station. Yes I said fire station and I don't believe it has been called that before. I am however; 70+% sure that this was filmed at an old Miami fire station. Why do I say this? First as they first go inside we see tiles on the wall that are exactly what one would see in a utilitarian government building like a fire house. Color, style, construction all are what I would expect to see in a fire station and not allot of other places.Second and maybe even more direct evidence is that there is an old fire engine in disrepair, possibly stored as a parts truck, seen sitting in the open bay. See picture 1501:Third we see large window areas that could have been garage bay doors to accomidate fire trucks, Picture 1502:Fourth, the tower we see in the initial establishing shot that to me looked like a watch tower at a prison maybe built for a totally different purpose. If this was a fire house, this tower may have been for drying the hoses after use. They pull them up the inside of the tower where they can dry hanging vertically. Standard practice at a fire house to dry the hoses in this manner before putting them away. Picture 1503:ome other things we see that may help are a radio tower in the distant bg and what I b elieve is a section of elevated metrorail seen in the near bg. Picture 1504:Unique delivery bay area, 1505:Unique entrance area that should be seen in aerial photos: Picture 1506:This may not be a fire house at all but it certainly looks like a municipal junk storage facility in an old city fire house so that is the direction I am going and if it is it will be easy to track down. It would likely be near downtown with a metro rail going by and some fire fighting history site would certainly have information on the site. The case is open Detectives!

[Matt5]

http://www.sffl.comcastbiz.net/wpimages/wp141338e1.pngThird we see large window areas that could have been garage bay doors to accomidate fire trucks, Picture 1502:Fourth, the tower we see in the initial establishing shot that to me looked like a watch tower at a prison maybe built for a totally different purpose. If this was a fire house, this tower may have been for drying the hoses after use. They pull them up the inside of the tower where they can dry hanging vertically. Standard practice at a fire house to dry the hoses in this manner before putting them away. Picture 1503:ome other things we see that may help are a radio tower in the distant bg and what I b elieve is a section of elevated metrorail seen in the near bg. Picture 1504:Unique delivery bay area, 1505:Unique entrance area that should be seen in aerial photos: Picture 1506:This may not be a fire house at all but it certainly looks like a municipal junk storage facility in an old city fire house so that is the direction I am going and if it is it will be easy to track down. It would likely be near downtown with a metro rail going by and some fire fighting history site would certainly have information on the site. The case is open Detectives!

Interesting case