Calling all Detectives: Group effort

[C Glide]

Sorry but I do not think that is the place we are looking for and it may not be the Airline Hotel. Not only is it only two floors but the design is wrong. The hotel we are looking for has stairways in the front end of each wing which are lacking here. The window shapes and number are off and the balconies on the front are not designed the way we are looking for. The balcony should have a "scalloped" (I made that term up for lack of a better description) design under the balcony supporting the balcony like we see on Espanola Way, Clay Hotel. It is great work but I am not even thinking this is the Airline. THere were apparently allot of u shaped buildings in Hialeah.To make this case even more challenging I am adding a part B and C.11-B: When Stan is at the back of the van and C+T pull up, this is suppose to be at the Ramrod. However; this really has every indication of being an alley but there are not any alleys around Palm Ave. area that I see. It looks like the beach to me. I increased the adaptive lighting and in the background I can see that approximately 40 yards behind them the road ends or there is a T intersection followed by a wall like you would see at Lummus Park. Behind that there are palm trees just like at Lummus. However there is only 1 alley I know of off of Ocean runninng east west (14th Pl) and that is not it. Any ideas?Exhibit A: There are or were either large vents or canopies at the end that would be Ocean Drive or some other front street.

[C Glide]

11-C: Romano home. This looks like the beach and for a while I just kinda put off the number on the residence as a prop or apartment number but it may actually be the real number. It may even be Hialeah near the Airline Hotel. It is on a unique street design. At a T intersection where the street that would be the long leg of the T does not continue straight in the distant background. It appears to go down a block hits another cross street but instead of going straight across it is offset about 10 yards to the left before it continues straight away. So if you drove down the street you would have to take a left and then immediate right instead of just going straight across. This occurs in some places on the beach and the mainland but is semi rare narrowing down where it could be. I see that Palm Ave is a divider in Hialeah with a 1st Ave on each side. I have not found an appropraite street mid block though. There is a high rise visible in the distant background. A reflection on the front of the Testarossa reveals the building on the corner to the front of the car is likely 5 stories tall.I increased the adaptive lighting on a shot that looks to the right of the house as you look away from the house. There are unique two story houses.Two buildings to the left, across the streetDefinitelt findable but tough.

[C Glide]

The street leading away from Romano's house is very likely an east-west road and we are most likely looking due west when we are looking past the Testarossa down the street. I base this on the long shadows being cast on the ground and their relative positions. That combined with, of the two choices, early morning filming or late afternoon, I think it more likely was a late afternoon shot making the street run west away from the house.

[miamijimf]

Sorry but I do not think that is the place we are looking for and it may not be the Airline Hotel. Not only is it only two floors but the design is wrong. The hotel we are looking for has stairways in the front end of each wing which are lacking here. The window shapes and number are off and the balconies on the front are not designed the way we are looking for. The balcony should have a "scalloped" (I made that term up for lack of a better description) design under the balcony supporting the balcony like we see on Espanola Way" data-date=" Clay Hotel. It is great work but I am not even thinking this is the Airline. THere were apparently allot of u shaped buildings in Hialeah.[/COLOR">

To make this case even more challenging I am adding a part B and C.11-B: When Stan is at the back of the van and C+T pull up, this is suppose to be at the Ramrod. However; this really has every indication of being an alley but there are not any alleys around Palm Ave. area that I see. It looks like the beach to me. I increased the adaptive lighting and in the background I can see that approximately 40 yards behind them the road ends or there is a T intersection followed by a wall like you would see at Lummus Park. Behind that there are palm trees just like at Lummus. However there is only 1 alley I know of off of Ocean runninng east west (14th Pl) and that is not it. Any ideas?Exhibit A: There are or were either large vents or canopies at the end that would be Ocean Drive or some other front street.

I agree with Charlie here. It is a nice find by Sue and shows that U shaped hotels were popular in Hialeah. I doubt however that this is the Ramrod. Sue's postcard is dated 1940 and it seems really unlikely that between 1940 and 1986 they would have added a third floor and the "scallops" and other design features we see on the Ramrod. Those design features are not Art Deco and seem older. The design is closer to the buildings we see on Espanola Way that were built beginning in the early 1920s. Interestingly we know that the Airline was built in 1924. The fact that the Airline was at 923 Palm Ave is further confirmed by Google Earth's time slider. It is there in 1994 but we know it was demolished in 1997 and on Google Earth it is gone in the 1999 view. But was the Airline the Ramrod? My guess is yes but we will have to wait for a picture to be sure. It is taking longer than I thought to get one.

[Pink Flaming0]

While we all still work on finding the Ramrod and now Romano's house, I was looking at this photo here and noticed a rather large standing building in the far background. If we can identify this building I think this could lead us to solving this case. Highlighted BoxI zoomed in as far as could. Does this building in the far background look familiar to anyone??

[Pink Flaming0]

[CarolineUK]

It is a pity that the postcard of the hotel wasn't the right one - I didn't think it was but it was worthwhile ... just in case! I have found a book on the internet which one of you may be able to find in your local Florida library "The Curtiss-Bright Cities: Hialeah, Miami Springs & Opa Locka (Paperback) by Seth H. Bramson (Author)". This is about the buildings of the 1920s in that area. Not sure what is in it but it looks interesting.What a pity it is for sale via Amazon & is not one of those e-books which have been a real help.

[C Glide]

It is a pity that the postcard of the hotel wasn't the right one - I didn't think it was but it was worthwhile ... just in case! I have found a book on the internet which one of you may be able to find in your local Florida library "The Curtiss-Bright Cities: Hialeah' date=' Miami Springs & Opa Locka (Paperback) by Seth H. Bramson (Author)". This is about the buildings of the 1920s in that area. Not sure what is in it but it looks interesting.What a pity it is for sale via Amazon & is not one of those e-books which have been a real help.[/quote']Sounds like it is worth a look see. Interesting.

[Matt5]

Sounds like it is worth a look see. Interesting.

An interesting sounding book

[Matt5]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/RamJet/Miami%20Vice/Sonnyramono.pngI zoomed in as far as could. Does this building in the far background look familiar to anyone??

City Hall - Washington Avenue, Miami Beach ?I dont know with the cars doesnt look very high end - Coconut Grove ?

[miamijimf]

Ref CC11, the Ramrod. When I discovered that the Miami Herald transferred most of their old photos and articles on microfiche to History Miami I contacted an archivist there and asked her to look up the photo that came with the July 10th 1997 article about the Airline. She found the negatives of the Airline photos but, of course, could not immediately print from the negative. The lady archivist was nice enough to hold the negative up to a light for me and describe what she saw. Unfortunately she could not make out any detail due to the quality of the negative and the fact that the hotel was partly obscured by a chain link fence. (I assume this is because the place was condemned and the authorities put up the fence to keep vagrants etc out) All she could tell was that it was U shaped and was three stories tall. She said the negatives are available to the public and anyone can visit the museum and see them. I know they have the capability of printing photos from negatives and will put in a request for print copies. There will be a small fee I'm sure but it will be worth it. I'm really curious to see what the old place looked like. Unfortunately this does not tell us anything we did not already know about the Airline but we are getting closer to finally being able to say the Ramrod has been found. Sue, that's good info about the book and the historian Seth Bramson. I got his name and phone number from reference at the Miami-Dade Public Library's Florida Room. Apparently he is alive and well in Miami. I have tried to call him several times but will keep on trying. I will try to locate a copy of the book also.

[C Glide]

Awesome work. I can feel victory in the air, it is close.

[Pink Flaming0]

Great work, Jim !

[CarolineUK]

Ref CC11' date=' the Ramrod... There will be a small fee I'm sure but it will be worth it. I'm really curious to see what the old place looked like.[/quote']Me too! Will be great to see if we have found it.

[C Glide]

RE: Vic's home. I am not sure how much this may help but it may contain some clues. This is a screen capture where I lightened the shadows. It is probably the best head on shot we see of Vic's apartment complex. It was filmed at night but I think I was able to lighten it enough to see some new clues at least to it's overall shape and the building behind it.

[Tom]

Vic Romano´s home is an apartment (number 41) in an U-shaped apartment complex. The other apartment on the other side of the "U"´s end has the number 47. If the numbers are following a usual street pattern (I doubt that), it should be easy to find close to a first Street. I rather assume (also based by the fact that I have searched unsuccessfully for weeks) that these are the apartment numbers, not the house number.If Ramrods is indeed in Hialeah, then this location is likely nearby (but as said no luck on Google Earth)

[miamijimf]

Good work guys. Since we know more about it and has anyone checked the old aerial photos for Vic's apartment building? I know they are not the greatest.Sue- spoke to Seth H. Bramson today and he promised to look at his old photos and other material. His book can be bought in the US on Amazon and I ordered it.I've gotten so into the Airline and Hialeah I have decided to write an article about the history of Hialeah. It was a city essentially founded by the aviation pioneer Glenn Curtis and is a story never completely told.

[CarolineUK]

Good work guys. Since we know more about it and has anyone checked the old aerial photos for Vic's apartment building? I know they are not the greatest.Sue- spoke to Seth H. Bramson today and he promised to look at his old photos and other material. His book can be bought in the US on Amazon and I ordered it.I've gotten so into Hialeah I have decided to write an article about the history of the place. It was a city essentially founded by the aviation pioneer Glenn Curtis and is a story never completely told.

Excellent! I feel I know Hialeah too after "walking" around at streetview on Google maps & Bing. Let us know what the book is like & I might order it here too. There's also a great book on Motel row in Sunny Isles that I'm thinking of buying - shame Vice didn't film more in that area. Fingers tightly crossed that he has photos which will help.Re the apartment building: I've been searching around Hialeah & also around South Beach as someone mentioned the large building looked a bit like the city hall on Washington. Couldn't find anything which fit the style of buildings. Will continue though

[Matt5]

Good work guys. Since we know more about it and has anyone checked the old aerial photos for Vic's apartment building? I know they are not the greatest.Sue- spoke to Seth H. Bramson today and he promised to look at his old photos and other material. His book can be bought in the US on Amazon and I ordered it.I've gotten so into the Airline and Hialeah I have decided to write an article about the history of Hialeah. It was a city essentially founded by the aviation pioneer Glenn Curtis and is a story never completely told.

Be interested to hear your thoughts on this book when you receive it Jim:D

[Pink Flaming0]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/RamJet/Miami%20Vice/Sonnyramono.pngI zoomed in as far as could. Does this building in the far background look familiar to anyone??

For some reason this looks like the view of the Courtyard and Grand Bay in Dinner Key, possibly shooting from Coconut Grove? Oak Ave?

[Pink Flaming0]

So what we know about Ramono's apartment is, it's a single story, U-shaped apartment building with the number 41 on his unit and number 47 next door and it appears to be located at a "T" intersection of a street?

[C Glide]

So what we know about Ramono's apartment is' date=' it's a single story, U-shaped apartment building with the number 41 on his unit and number 47 next door and it appears to be located at a "T" intersection of a street?[/quote']We know allot more than that. Check out my post # 377 and 378.

[miamijimf]

Ref CC11, the Ramrod. The Airline Hotel at 923 Palm Ave Hialeah was not used as the Ramrod. I just got a free low res photo from History Miami. It is from a negative that came with a 1996 Miami Herald story about the Airline being condemned. As you can see from the photo below, it looks nothing like the Ramrod as it appeared in Vice. This photo shows the Airline is in fact the hotel shown on the 1940s postcard that CarolineUK found and posted. Shown below.I'm surprised and disappointed. All the circumstantial evidence pointed to this hotel as the Ramrod, Mr. Neon's recollections, the old aerial photos etc etc. It shows the importance of verifying locations before declaring a Vice site found. Back to square one.

[Matt5]

http://www.miamiviceonline.com/photoplog/images/16/medium/1_Airline_Hotel_1996.jpgThis photo shows the Airline is in fact the hotel shown on the 1940s postcard that CarolineUK found and posted. Shown below.I'm surprised and disappointed. All the circumstantial evidence pointed to this hotel as the Ramrod, Mr. Neon's recollections, the old aerial photos etc etc. It shows the importance of verifying locations before declaring a Vice site found. Back to square one.

Great work Jim - I was , we all were probrably, having doubts .Looking at The Ramrod - the upper floor where the windows are looks like it opens onto a corridor of some kind . I think SoflaJeremy could be onto something when they pull up to The Ramrod that looks like Collins Crt but its not in the same frame - so the Ramrod could have been anywhere My my The Ramrod is proving to be elusive.:D

[CarolineUK]

Great work Jim - I was ' date=' we all were probrably, having doubts .Looking at The Ramrod - the upper floor where the windows are looks like it opens onto a corridor of some kind . I think SoflaJeremy could be onto something when they pull up to The Ramrod that looks like Collins Crt but its not in the same frame - so the Ramrod could have been anywhere My my The Ramrod is proving to be elusive.:D[/quote']Nice to see the Airline as it was after all our surfing but sad its not the Ramrod. Before Hialeah was mentioned, SoflaJeremy mentioned he recalled someone saying the Ramrod had been on a main road in Coconut Grove. Would there have been wide "back alleys" like SoBe's Ocean court so everything was filmed in one area? Maybe even the apartment of Romano will be there too ... we could do with discovering what that tall building is in the distance in the screencap.